Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

Well, what are the options? Of course it would be better if there were smaller class sizes, better teachers, and more individualized teaching. That's not the world we live in. OP's child has certain characteristics that are making her struggle to learn in the classroom as it is. The ONLY way to get more individualized attention is to 1) move to a private school or 2) get an IEP.

DP. It's first grade and only the first week or two of the new school year.

I'd say to give it some time before making any determinations or changes. IMHO

The fact that it's only a week or two into first grade and this is already coming up suggests that the behavioral issues are truly severe and/or are a continuation of issues already well-known from kindergarten.

OP - try to remember that if your DC gets an IEP (or put into the SPED) he will be better protected from some of the punishments doled out that really won't help your kid.

My son had some behavioral issues and early on he was sent to the principal's office. A lot. It was counter productive because him sitting there, missing recess or the rest of class or something, typically made his behaviors worse. He was miserable, hated going to school and just got worse and worse (I also didn't think he needed an IEP and fought that).

Finally, when I did agree to an IEP, the punishments stopped because there was a plan in place when he had his outbursts. He became so much more happy and the plan the school put in place helped him so much that his outbursts were less and less frequent.

You may not see the punishments now, but if you don't work with the school, I'm guessing you'll start seeing them soon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

Well, what are the options? Of course it would be better if there were smaller class sizes, better teachers, and more individualized teaching. That's not the world we live in. OP's child has certain characteristics that are making her struggle to learn in the classroom as it is. The ONLY way to get more individualized attention is to 1) move to a private school or 2) get an IEP.

DP. It's first grade and only the first week or two of the new school year.

I'd say to give it some time before making any determinations or changes. IMHO

Anonymous wrote:I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

Well, what are the options? Of course it would be better if there were smaller class sizes, better teachers, and more individualized teaching. That's not the world we live in. OP's child has certain characteristics that are making her struggle to learn in the classroom as it is. The ONLY way to get more individualized attention is to 1) move to a private school or 2) get an IEP.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

If a parent were to argue that a child has behaviors that are not of the type that legally need to be accommodated, and refuses the types of accommodations already offeredin public schools, then don't you think it is that parent's responsibility to fund that specially tailored learning environment? Private schools, private tutoring, and homeschooling are all options, but tailoring indiviual school experiences within already-strapped schools is not an option, above and beyond the systems already in place. Not in any short-term way.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

Even if you're right that these behaviors could be managed with smaller class sizes and different expectations, those changes can't be made on a class-by-class basis, or even a school-by-school basis, so OP has to work in the system we have, not the system she wishes we had. Refusing to get her child the supports he needs because in an ideal world the behaviors could be managed with small class sizes only hurts her child.

[quote=Anonymous]OP here. We have worked a lot with DC and there has been much improvement since kinder. But this is FIRST grade and immaturity should not come as a surprise. There have been other children recently being pushed into special ed as part of what seems like a wave at the school. But my intention was to ask a much broader question. Allow me to rephrase:

Do you think a school should be able to use special education as a tool to segregate the well behaved from the ill behaved if there is no danger of physical harm? Yes I understand the argument of affecting others. But special education was never intended as a tool to "help others". Perhaps something else should be in place for that like a BMP? Thanks.[/quote]

So do you think there should be another category/class, like advanced kids with non-violent behavior issues?

I saw a study where a Texas high school lowered ADHD with more recess time-what does that say about behavior problems?

I’m not OP, but do see OP’s point of view, depending on what these behaviors are. Wouldn’t all these behavior issues be solved by having less students student to teacher ratios and less academic pressure to test and reach a score versus actual fluid learning? I think the parents that resist see it this way. My husband is big law today and back then he would be a behavior problem-special needs. He wasn’t because it was a different environment. Part of his arguments (with teachers-pushing limits-learning) make him a successful lawyer today and IS a wnat d trait.

OP, don't forget that a BIP isn't just a tool for managing your child's behavior, it's also a protection from your child because it sets out a plan for how everyone involved, not just your child, will manage your child's behavioral needs. If, for instance, your child becomes prone to throwing things when he gets too antsy in his seat, the BIP might provide that your child is allowed to get up and move around as needed within prescribed limits. If a teacher then refuses to allow him to move around as provided in the BIP and your child throws something that hits and injures another person, the teacher's failure to comply with the BIP leading to the known result gives your child some protection from the normal consequences that kind of behavior.

[quote=Anonymous]OP here. We have worked a lot with DC and there has been much improvement since kinder. But this is FIRST grade and immaturity should not come as a surprise. There have been other children recently being pushed into special ed as part of what seems like a wave at the school. But my intention was to ask a much broader question. Allow me to rephrase:

Do you think a school should be able to use special education as a tool to segregate the well behaved from the ill behaved if there is no danger of physical harm? Yes I understand the argument of affecting others. But special education was never intended as a tool to "help others". Perhaps something else should be in place for that like a BMP? Thanks.[/quote]

You keep saying things like moving "into" special ed and "segregating".
It sounds like you actually have no clue how special education works. I don't believe for one second that there is a "wave" of pushing kids into self contained classrooms and out of their regular classroom.

The law is that students must be served in the least restrictive environment - for the vast majority of kids with IEPs, that's in their regular general ed classroom. In all likelihood, your child would get an IEP that keeps him in his regular classroom but offers him (and the teacher) some extra supports and has him into some pull-out groups or classes.

Has the school specifically told you they want your child in a self contained classroom? Because if so, your child's behavior must be *extraordinarily* out of the main stream - there are usually several steps (often years!) of effort before a kid is moved to a self contained classroom. (Obviously that depends on the disability, and some kids certainly start in self contained classrooms, but that's not what we're talking about here.)

And yes, I do think the school should be allowed to separate children *to help the children learn* regardless of danger of physical harm. Most classroom teachers with 25 six year olds do not have the time or resources to deliver the curriculum to their classroom if one child's behavior is extremely negative. And the child with the behavior issues is clearly not access the curriculum if they aren't participating and paying attention. The fact that that kid hasn't (yet) done anything to harm another child is really neither here not there.

The right response depends on the school, you child, what your child is doing in class, and the teacher's ability to deal with the behavior based his/her current class. I have a child with ADHD who aced 2 out of 3 SOLs in FCPS. He had an IEP, but was released from it in June because I agreed that his issues no longer impede his ability to successfully access the curriculum with the understanding that a 504 Plan or informal accommodations could be created at the drop of a hat. He wasn't in a self-contained class, but he was in a classroom with a higher than average number of kids with an IEP. That's considered normal (not necessarily right) for schools to put as many kids that have an IEP that they can in certain classes together. In MoCo, they treat ADHD a lot more aggressively and they would probably push for him to still have an IEP. Having an IEP isn't a bad thing. Op, I think that you need to take a step back and really evaluate what the school is saying. There's usually a good reason when the school comes to you about your child's behavioral problems. Go observe your kid at school. Talk to a number of your kid's teachers. Then, reassess.

OP, I think you misunderstand what special education actually is. Your post makes it sound like you think your child will be moved out of the regular classroom. 99% of the time, this is not the case. Special ed. happens in the regular classroom.

What are the behaviors?

You really need to listen to everyone here. Receiving special education services is not a scarlet letter or a lifelong stigma. In K and 1st grade they can be provided because of what is called “developmental delay”. Which basically means we aren’t sure what is going on, but this child needs some extra support. And they may gain sufficient skills through push in support to no longer need services.

It is possible that it feels like a bunch of kids are getting pushed into special education in 1st grade if your school is being diligent in identifying the children with dyslexia. For those kids 1st grade is often the earliest a public school will evaluate. It is critical that they receive early, high quality intervention in the form of evidence-based reading instruction so that they can be remediated by 3rd grade. And dyslexic kids are often gifted too.

Please get over yourself and get your child the help they need.