So like, you can celebrate July 4th by going swimming and having a cookout, no references to US independence needed at all, and quite a few people do.

Does that mean people in Russia and China and India should celebrate July 4th with a cookout?

Do Christians celebrate the secular aspects of Eid El Fitr, or of Diwali?

I mean its a free country, and you can celebrate the Queens birthday if you like, or Chinese New Year or Nawrouz.

But if you find it more important to celebrate Christmas than the holidays above, don't pretend you are being "secular" or "Cultural" Jews. Being a cultural Jew actually means being involved in Jewish culture - if you hate religion, there is Yiddish language (or Ladino) secular literature in Jewish languages, and secular intepretations of JEWISH holidays. Celebrating Christmas is just being assimilated.

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Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

If Judaism is reduced to Hannukah the game is already lost.

I define it the same way people who study this do. And they’re not just called Ashkenazi; they are Ashkenazi Jews.

Here’s one study: https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.0020143

Here’s a write up of it:

A 2006 study found Ashkenazi Jews to be a clear, homogeneous genetic subgroup. Strikingly, regardless of the place of origin, Ashkenazi Jews can be grouped in the same genetic cohort – that is, regardless of whether an Ashkenazi Jew's ancestors came from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or any other place with a historical Jewish population, they belong to the same ethnic group. The research demonstrates the endogamy of the Jewish population in Europe and lends further credence to the idea of Ashkenazi Jews as an ethnic group. Moreover, though intermarriage among Jews of Ashkenazi descent has become increasingly common, many Haredi Jews, particularly members of Hasidic or Hareidi sects, continue to marry exclusively fellow Ashkenazi Jews. This trend keeps Ashkenazi genes prevalent and also helps researchers further study the genes of Ashkenazi Jews with relative ease.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

And PS: one of the reasons, among others, that he won't identify as Jewish is because he thinks Christmas is better than Hannukah. Fact. Sorry.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Again, if you answer what "ethnicity" means to you, that might be helpful. Obviously I agree that my DS has ethnically Ashkenazi genes. What's the point beyond that? He won't identify as "Jewish" the way things are headed now. So he's ethnically ASHKENAZI, not ethnically Jewish. Just like I am ethnically Irish/Celtic, not ethnically Irish Catholic.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

No no no no no.

Your son is ethnically Jewish. Why deny it?

There are literally haplogroups distinct to Ashkenazi Jews. It is an ethnicity.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

I think you're the ignorant one. My DS's 23andme would likely show around 60% Ashkenazi. His dad is a secular Jew, and we aren't raising him Jewish in any meaningful way. The way things are going he will NOT be Jewish, depsite his genetics. Judaism is a religion and culture, which can absolutely be lost if you don't maintain connections to it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

Do you and your husband exchange Valentines Day gifts? Do you go to December 31st New Year’s Eve parties or wish others a happy new year on January 1st?

Both of those are Christian holidays.

And yes, Christmas and New Year’s Day are both national holidays (banks, federal offices, post office etc are closed in observance).

Valentines Day and birthdays are not Christian Holidays. Valentines Day is a hallmark holiday. Christmas should not be celebrated by Jews. Most of us, even non-practicing, have absolutely no interest in Christmas or a tree and our tradition is movies and Chinese food.

You need to read up on Saint Valentine. It is very much a Christian holiday. Some Christians still conduct masses and religious ceremonies in his honor. Is it just Jesus who offends you, but other Christians like Saint Valentine are okay? So, all this time Jews like you were celebrating Valentines, but didn't know it is has a Christian origin. Let me tell you that many of the things that you partake in have a Christian origin. So, why throw tantrums over Christmas, but other Christian related things are okay with you.

Oh come off it. Obviously Christmas and Valentine's day are not equal in their religious connotations and importance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

DH is Jewish and his family had a Christmas tree. My sense is that last generation Jews felt pretty secure in their Judaism and hence not that threatened by celebrating Christmas. In addition, they may not have wanted their kids to miss out or be disadvantaged by not getting to share in the most kid-centered Christian holiday. But for their kids, I honestly thinking celebrating Christmas any any other Christian religion is a bit more of a step towards completely losing their Jewish culture. If you aren't actively religious, are several generations removed from people who were actively religions, AND celebrate Christian holidays ... then yeah, your kids are likely not going to identify as Jewish at all. For that reason, I understand why my brother in law has completely decided "no Christmas" in his household. OTOH my DH doesn't really care if our DS identifies as Jewish or not, so we do Christmas and Hannukah.

Anonymous wrote:You are not Jewish even if 23andme says you are. This is very upsetting.

Huh?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Christmas is one of the two holiest days of the Christian calendar.

It is most decidedly a Christian holiday

The secular parts are culturally American though

No,it is not.

You are not Jewish even if 23andme says you are. This is very upsetting.

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Christmas is one of the two holiest days of the Christian calendar.

It is most decidedly a Christian holiday

The secular parts are culturally American though

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Christmas and Valentines Day are secular now, Guys. Enjoy!

Well so are Rosh Hahahah and Yom Kippur --- just join Machar, the Jewish secular synagogue, to see that they are secular!

So if that is part of your heritage or not, you can enjoy! Not that I see why non-Jews every embracing our most important holidays.

But, please don't tell us Jews that because Christmas, which celebrates the birth of a person who other worship as a god, has become secular, Jews should embrace it. It's commendable for Jews to keep their unique culture and not assimilate with the majority Christian culture. I personally admire Jews who show that Christmas is not an "American" holiday any more than Hanukkah is -- American means diverse religions so no religious holiday is an "American" one.

I think we Jews should embrace it. We can still keep our culture and assimilate at the same time.

NP. And how is that working out for us? 75% of Reform Jews intermarry and they and their kids predictably stop keeping any traditions. The only Jewish movement that’s actually growing is Orthodox. Because they refuse to assimilate.

How often descendants of immigrants keep their culture after the 1st generation? My parents are Jewish immigrants and they raised me with a culture as an adult I choose not to care for.

So you're not Jewish. You're not a Jew who celebrates Christmas. You're someone who used to be Jewish, and now follows the majority holiday practices.

One still retains their Jewish heritage- that never goes away- your ancestry doesn’t change just because you celebrate Christmas. So they are non practicing Jews who celebrate Christmas in a non religious way. They are Jews but just non practicing.

That's only if you believe Jews are a racial group. You wouldn't say that about any kind of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. that was totally non-practicing, a non-believer, and held as a personal value that he/she should fully assimilate into the majority (Christian) culture in all ways.

I don't know who you are, but you have an agenda.

No sorry that argument doesn’t work... do you want to try again?

Yup.

PP: JEWS ARE A RACIAL GROUP. Look it up. Ashkenazi and Sephardic are racial groups. When my husband and I did our genetic screenings while I was pregnant, we had to get the Ashkenazi Jew panel, which includes screenings for diseases like Tay Sachs, which is much more common among Ashkenazi Jews. I did the 23 and me thing last year and came up with 50% Ashenazi. My husband came up with 75%. We could never set foot in shul again and that would still never change. We will always be Jewish.

You are simply ignorant.

Thank You for enlightening this very ignorant poster, who somehow overlooked the genetic history tied to Judaism. I did all the same tests as you. I am all Ashkemazi and I celebrate Christmas and Jewish holidays too. I am still a Jew!!

Anonymous wrote:You are not celebrating Christmas.

You are celebrating winter, coziness, friendship, family, and even--in some ways--being an American.

But you are not celebrating Christmas. Just as it is insulting for Christians or athiests to appropriate and misunderstand and mischaracterize the beliefs and traditions of other faiths, it is insulting for you to say that you are celebrating Christmas. Because Christmas really, truly is not about red and green and gifts to many of us. Please don't act like participating in those activities is celebrating a holy day.

Lighten up, Francis.

Christmas, Easter and other holidays all have pagan roots that long pre-date the church.

People can call them whatever the hell they want and it is not insulting in any way, even if it has the word Christ in it. Means nothing. Just like it doesn't mean anything insulting when Christians refer to Easter (from the pagan god ?ostre) or Thursday (pagan god Thor).