Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 14:12     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Lutheranism is much closer to Catholic than American Episcopalianism. It does not believe in transubstantiation but the liturgy is what you are used to.


The Episcopalian liturgy is virtually word-for-word the Catholic liturgy before the most recent changes.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:39     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.


100% not true.


It’s is absolutely 100% [b]true[b]. All faith based organizations and any organization that has access to children, harbor sexual predators. This article states some of them, but there are many more including Boy/girl Scouts, camps etc. It is absolutely a human issue!
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/faith-religion/2018/06/25/pennsylvania-catholic-church-sex-abuse-scandal-religious-organizations/stories/201906120001
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:13     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Half my family is Catholic, half is Lutheran. I grew up going to Catholic church most Sundays, and Lutheran camp every summer for a week. I later worked at that camp, while still Catholic. My sister became a Lutheran pastor. When I was 30, I switched to being Lutheran.

For my family, "toggling" between the two churches feels pretty seamless. It may be more of a process for you than it was for me, because of my background familiarity, but I definitely think checking out a Lutheran church would be a good idea for you.

I recommend an ELCA church; Missouri Synod, for me, is extremely problematic.


This whole thread probably has Luther grinning in his grave, Henry VIII laughing and Calvin singing.


I honestly don't think anyone is grinning or happy about horrific abuses toward children. If anyone is feeling smug or justified or happy about this, they need to stop and reflect on what is really going on in their heart.

Henry VIII had zero human rights or true morality concerns about the break with the church. Yes, it was about being able to marry Anne Boleyn, but even more than that, he couldn't resist the POWER and wealth that would come with money that had gone from monasteries/the church going straight to him, and people answering to the pope answering only to him. It wasn't about cleansing and purity and all that--it was about his own greed and power. Luther was far from wholly moral and perfect--I say that as a Lutheran. His views on women and people of color were not admirable. So let's not get carried away.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:12     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Lutheranism is much closer to Catholic than American Episcopalianism. It does not believe in transubstantiation but the liturgy is what you are used to.


Conservative Catholics will have trouble in the American Episcopal church, particularly if they are pro-life.

Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:08     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Lutheranism is much closer to Catholic than American Episcopalianism. It does not believe in transubstantiation but the liturgy is what you are used to.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:06     Subject: Re:Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
How old are your kids?
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:05     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Half my family is Catholic, half is Lutheran. I grew up going to Catholic church most Sundays, and Lutheran camp every summer for a week. I later worked at that camp, while still Catholic. My sister became a Lutheran pastor. When I was 30, I switched to being Lutheran.

For my family, "toggling" between the two churches feels pretty seamless. It may be more of a process for you than it was for me, because of my background familiarity, but I definitely think checking out a Lutheran church would be a good idea for you.

I recommend an ELCA church; Missouri Synod, for me, is extremely problematic.


This whole thread probably has Luther grinning in his grave, Henry VIII laughing and Calvin singing.


DP. My husband and I had this convo last night:

Me: what about Lutheranism?
DH: I'm embarrassed to admit I don't really know much about Martin Luther.
Me: I'm no scholar but he was the guy who nailed the paper to the church door complaining about how freaking corrupt it was. Sound familiar?
DH: Oh.
Both of us chuckle morbidly. Sigh.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:02     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm not Catholic myself but my husband is and we've had all our kids baptized Catholic. My MIL is their godmother. DH and MIL won't accept a Protestant church in any form. DH would give up going to church altogether, but I don't want to do that. I'd like for my kids to be raised in a church. My oldest is 7 and I feel strongly that I need to talk to her about never being alone with anyone from the church, and it's almost bringing me to tears just thinking about it. I'm just at a loss.

The reporting strongly suggests that Wuerhl basically used the scandal as a stepping stone for his own career, while continuing to cover up new revelations. This may be the final straw for me in supporting a Catholic upbringing for my kids.


OP here - I sort of keep coming back to a similar thought. If I have to warn my DC about not being alone with anyone from the church, then that is a huge red flag for me. What kind of religion is it then? But then again, I've always been worried about things like this, and would probably warn a child about being alone with a coach, etc.


PP again. I was a decent athlete through MS and HS and was never warned as a child and don't plan to warn my kids about coaches specifically. I spent time alone with coaches regularly to talk about the team, to get extra practice in, just to chat because I was close with some (male and female) coaches. I think that just reiterates my discomfort and sadness here, that I DO feel the need to warn about the church.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 13:02     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:Half my family is Catholic, half is Lutheran. I grew up going to Catholic church most Sundays, and Lutheran camp every summer for a week. I later worked at that camp, while still Catholic. My sister became a Lutheran pastor. When I was 30, I switched to being Lutheran.

For my family, "toggling" between the two churches feels pretty seamless. It may be more of a process for you than it was for me, because of my background familiarity, but I definitely think checking out a Lutheran church would be a good idea for you.

I recommend an ELCA church; Missouri Synod, for me, is extremely problematic.


This whole thread probably has Luther grinning in his grave, Henry VIII laughing and Calvin singing.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 12:55     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Half my family is Catholic, half is Lutheran. I grew up going to Catholic church most Sundays, and Lutheran camp every summer for a week. I later worked at that camp, while still Catholic. My sister became a Lutheran pastor. When I was 30, I switched to being Lutheran.

For my family, "toggling" between the two churches feels pretty seamless. It may be more of a process for you than it was for me, because of my background familiarity, but I definitely think checking out a Lutheran church would be a good idea for you.

I recommend an ELCA church; Missouri Synod, for me, is extremely problematic.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 12:52     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:I'm not Catholic myself but my husband is and we've had all our kids baptized Catholic. My MIL is their godmother. DH and MIL won't accept a Protestant church in any form. DH would give up going to church altogether, but I don't want to do that. I'd like for my kids to be raised in a church. My oldest is 7 and I feel strongly that I need to talk to her about never being alone with anyone from the church, and it's almost bringing me to tears just thinking about it. I'm just at a loss.

The reporting strongly suggests that Wuerhl basically used the scandal as a stepping stone for his own career, while continuing to cover up new revelations. This may be the final straw for me in supporting a Catholic upbringing for my kids.


Time to get out from under your MIL. And DH is not very religious if he'll only accept a church with rampant pedophilia
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 12:13     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do understand that the stats on priest abuse are very similar to abuse in leadership in other faiths? It isn't just a "Catholic" issue. It is a human issue.


Where is this happening in other faiths? I grew up in Catholic school, but I am protestant. There isn't much difference in the two religions except that Catholic priests seem to have much more contact with young boys because of altar boys (the boys in my super conservative MoCo parish used to brag that the cool, young priest used to show them porno mags. I shutter now to think of what else happened to them), first communion and confession. It's such an easy breeding ground for abuse. We didn't have these things in the protestant church, they were more community centered vs. priest/child centered.
The stats show that abuse is very similar in other faiths. It just doesn't get as much press as it does wit the Catholic Church.



Utter BS. NOt on this magnitude. Please provide stats.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 12:03     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:I'm not Catholic myself but my husband is and we've had all our kids baptized Catholic. My MIL is their godmother. DH and MIL won't accept a Protestant church in any form. DH would give up going to church altogether, but I don't want to do that. I'd like for my kids to be raised in a church. My oldest is 7 and I feel strongly that I need to talk to her about never being alone with anyone from the church, and it's almost bringing me to tears just thinking about it. I'm just at a loss.

The reporting strongly suggests that Wuerhl basically used the scandal as a stepping stone for his own career, while continuing to cover up new revelations. This may be the final straw for me in supporting a Catholic upbringing for my kids.


OP here - I sort of keep coming back to a similar thought. If I have to warn my DC about not being alone with anyone from the church, then that is a huge red flag for me. What kind of religion is it then? But then again, I've always been worried about things like this, and would probably warn a child about being alone with a coach, etc.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 10:16     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
I'm not Catholic myself but my husband is and we've had all our kids baptized Catholic. My MIL is their godmother. DH and MIL won't accept a Protestant church in any form. DH would give up going to church altogether, but I don't want to do that. I'd like for my kids to be raised in a church. My oldest is 7 and I feel strongly that I need to talk to her about never being alone with anyone from the church, and it's almost bringing me to tears just thinking about it. I'm just at a loss.

The reporting strongly suggests that Wuerhl basically used the scandal as a stepping stone for his own career, while continuing to cover up new revelations. This may be the final straw for me in supporting a Catholic upbringing for my kids.
Anonymous
Post 08/16/2018 08:17     Subject: Lifelong Catholic, thinking of leaving church -- how to deal with moving children to new faith?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m in a very similar boat. My youngest is scheduled for First Communion this year and I think I may delay the decision for a head to allow her to have the experience her siblings did as well as to give her the option to return to the church in the future. It’s a very difficult decision for me—1) my family was very devout and I feel that I am betraying them, plus 2) there are many aspects of the faith that I really appreciate.
Also, I 100% disagree with the person who said that anyone raised in the church was aware this was going on. My family has been very active in the church and we’ve never had any experience remotely like this with any priest, or even got a creepy vibe or anything. For us, a “bad” priest was one who gave too long a sermon or too much penance at confession! Also, as a lawyer, I’m pretty aware that a disturbingly large percentage of the male population is just totally messed up when it comes to sex/respect/etc., so I agree that this is not just a catholic issue. I wish the church had let women into the hierarchy decades ago.


1) this guilt-tripping is how the church keeps people coming

2) those can be found in other churches - like Episcopal or Lutheran