ECNL is a good girl’s league

Anonymous wrote:I do not agree boys ECNL is a bad idea, there is nothing wrong with competition. This country is not good enough at soccer for us to have a top down system where the federation dictates how to develop players. It is a lot like the people arguing for single payer healthcare. I don’t think our government should tell people from the top down how to do healthcare. Same thing for soccer, we should not have a single elite system pushed on us from the top down. The one thing this country is good at is free market competition, if we started rewarding clubs for producing players with money then we would really start developing players and no one would care what league they play in.

I can see why you like the boys' ECNL if you are a fan of the healthcare system the free market has produced in our country. Both systems are excellent for providing profits to the suppliers of the product, I just have a different perspective since I care more about the consumers.

Anonymous wrote:I do not agree boys ECNL is a bad idea, there is nothing wrong with competition. This country is not good enough at soccer for us to have a top down system where the federation dictates how to develop players. It is a lot like the people arguing for single payer healthcare. I don’t think our government should tell people from the top down how to do healthcare. Same thing for soccer, we should not have a single elite system pushed on us from the top down. The one thing this country is good at is free market competition, if we started rewarding clubs for producing players with money then we would really start developing players and no one would care what league they play in.

Well, that’s what other countries already do.

I do not agree boys ECNL is a bad idea, there is nothing wrong with competition. This country is not good enough at soccer for us to have a top down system where the federation dictates how to develop players. It is a lot like the people arguing for single payer healthcare. I don’t think our government should tell people from the top down how to do healthcare. Same thing for soccer, we should not have a single elite system pushed on us from the top down. The one thing this country is good at is free market competition, if we started rewarding clubs for producing players with money then we would really start developing players and no one would care what league they play in.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Further evidence Boys ECNL is dying. Baltimore Celtic has pulled its top boys team (U14) from ECNL. They'll be playing EDP instead. The club will enter its B team in ECNL. Clubs with both DA and ECNL already do this. If non-DA clubs start doing it as well, the end is near.

Reason given was lack of competition. Last fall they beat the NE teams by over 10 goals (1 game was 17-1). In the spring the parents and coach refused to travel all the way to CT & MA for non-competitive games. The NE teams actually agreed to forfeit the games themselves, rather than insist the Baltimore teams make the trip to blow them out.

It's time for all involved to admit the Boys ECNL was just a really bad idea.

Typical Baltimore.

Steve Nichols was on stage at NSCAA a few years ago explaining that he left the Baltimore Bays' DA operation because the games weren't competitive. Guess who's back in the DA?

I'm hardly a defender of having multiple "national" leagues. Maybe boys' ECNL is a really bad idea. The travel last year was ridiculous, and it's only slightly better this year now that the VA teams are going south rather than north.

But it's just a little funny to see people in Year 1 give up and say it's not competitive enough.

And if a game is 17-1, you're probably doing something wrong. Have your goalkeeper play forward -- it'll help develop foot skills he'll need at a higher level. Move everyone to a different position -- also helpful for development. You don't have to do the rec-league "only score with your weak foot" or "pass the ball 20 times before you shoot" rules, but if you're THAT much better than the opposition, you're going to have to get creative to get any developmental lesson from the game.

Different poster, but I always thought it was odd that people just took Nichols' comments/interviews about why he left the DA and formed Celtic at face value. The main reason they left DA was because a lot of the DA players and the majority of promising players on top younger teams in the area attended Baltimore area private schools, many of them recruited there, and many with scholarships. Before the no-high school soccer rule, Nichols was coaching at McDonogh, his son attended there, and that's where most of the Bays' DA practice fields were. Staying with the DA was not a sustainable situation if he and his son wanted to stay at McDonogh. Once he got the Loyola job, he was happy to return to the DA fold.

Boys' ECNL is entirely a bad idea, for the same reasons given with respect to CCL and VPL in your thread on those leagues. It causes more families to spend more money for no good development reason. It exists because clubs want to be able to claim they have an "elite" product to help with their market share, and also so that the ECNL leadership can save face having created an ill-advised war over girls' DA.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Further evidence Boys ECNL is dying. Baltimore Celtic has pulled its top boys team (U14) from ECNL. They'll be playing EDP instead. The club will enter its B team in ECNL. Clubs with both DA and ECNL already do this. If non-DA clubs start doing it as well, the end is near.

Reason given was lack of competition. Last fall they beat the NE teams by over 10 goals (1 game was 17-1). In the spring the parents and coach refused to travel all the way to CT & MA for non-competitive games. The NE teams actually agreed to forfeit the games themselves, rather than insist the Baltimore teams make the trip to blow them out.

It's time for all involved to admit the Boys ECNL was just a really bad idea.

Typical Baltimore.

Steve Nichols was on stage at NSCAA a few years ago explaining that he left the Baltimore Bays' DA operation because the games weren't competitive. Guess who's back in the DA?

I'm hardly a defender of having multiple "national" leagues. Maybe boys' ECNL is a really bad idea. The travel last year was ridiculous, and it's only slightly better this year now that the VA teams are going south rather than north.

But it's just a little funny to see people in Year 1 give up and say it's not competitive enough.

And if a game is 17-1, you're probably doing something wrong. Have your goalkeeper play forward -- it'll help develop foot skills he'll need at a higher level. Move everyone to a different position -- also helpful for development. You don't have to do the rec-league "only score with your weak foot" or "pass the ball 20 times before you shoot" rules, but if you're THAT much better than the opposition, you're going to have to get creative to get any developmental lesson from the game.

From multiple parents on that team - the coach was trying to get creative to keep the score down, and eventually gave up and just told them they couldn't shoot at all.

BTW their GK already has great footskills. Every player on the team has great footskills, and they already play at a high level. This is a very good team: https://home.gotsoccer.com/rankings/team.aspx?TeamID=754504&Page=1&History=yes&compact=. Their average GD in the ECNL was +7. That's not just one blowout. That's a whole year of blowouts.

The parents were in open revolt. They didn't ask to be put in ENCL in the first place. Their club signed them up for it with promises of a high level of competition. They are at the southern edge of the Northeast conference. 7 of the other teams (half the conf) are in NY, CT, and MA. Next thing the parents know, they're driving 20 hours round trip in a weekend, paying close to $100 in tolls, in addition to hotel & food, all to stand on the sideline for 70 minutes watching their kid's coach try to be "creative" to hold down the score.

The kids were just as unhappy as the parents. These are very dedicated players. They work hard, sacrifice a lot, and as long as it is both fun and productive for them, they absolutely love it. There was nothing fun or productive about the ECNL for them.

I guess my initial post was a little misleading, by saying "the club" pulled this team from ECNL. It would be more accurate to say that the club gave in to the parents' demands to pull them from the league.

But I don't think opting out of another year of that was "funny" for them. Doing anything else would have been insanity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Which program is better? Bryc ECNL or McLean's?

McLean ECNL 03s have a phenomenal coach

Boys or girls? Their boys top team is pretty bad in this age group.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because it's an open league - any team can join that wants to. You don't have to wait for your slow-moving club director to decide for you.

Curious -- how does that work? If the parents on Big Club's B team decide they want to leave NCSL and join EDP, they don't have to ask the club?

I think it must be relatively easy. In my small club, the TD told us he would happily entertain the idea of moving our team into EDP (as were were not getting enough competitive games in NCSL at that time).

It's because it's an open league - any team can join that wants to. You don't have to wait for your slow-moving club director to decide for you.

It's amazing to me to see how quickly EDP has shot to forefront of youth soccer leagues. To me, it almost feels it took over overnight. Has this been slowly brewing, or did it re-organize itself in the past couple of years in a way that made it a better answer to the elite soccer question? Why EDP?

Anonymous wrote:Which program is better? Bryc ECNL or McLean's?

McLean ECNL 03s have a phenomenal coach

Anonymous wrote:You never know what you are going to get with FPYC, for SFL and travel. Unless your DC has played a specific team and you watched the game, you can't make any assumptions. Burke is also a smallish club, and yet they have an exceptionally strong U17 girls team (Blitz?) every club is going to have a strong team here or there, and it's almost always because of the coach.

Very true. Both FPYC and Burke can be counted on for being inconsistent. There could be an amazing team in a certain age group and another age group with no team! I suspect most small clubs are this way.

You never know what you are going to get with FPYC, for SFL and travel. Unless your DC has played a specific team and you watched the game, you can't make any assumptions. Burke is also a smallish club, and yet they have an exceptionally strong U17 girls team (Blitz?) every club is going to have a strong team here or there, and it's almost always because of the coach.

Further evidence Boys ECNL is dying. Baltimore Celtic has pulled its top boys team (U14) from ECNL. They'll be playing EDP instead. The club will enter its B team in ECNL. Clubs with both DA and ECNL already do this. If non-DA clubs start doing it as well, the end is near.

Reason given was lack of competition. Last fall they beat the NE teams by over 10 goals (1 game was 17-1). In the spring the parents and coach refused to travel all the way to CT & MA for non-competitive games. The NE teams actually agreed to forfeit the games themselves, rather than insist the Baltimore teams make the trip to blow them out.

It's time for all involved to admit the Boys ECNL was just a really bad idea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^To the FPYC parent who posted above. In no way am I suggesting that any kids on your team or any other team ought to go elsewhere if they are happy with their situation. My only point is that if a player in our area wants to get scouted by YNT or pro scouts eventually, it's not nearly so difficult as a lot of people on here make it out to be.

I know it’s not, thanks for having a conversation. I heard one of the players who doesn’t even start was invited back to train with DCU after his initial try-out, so the opportunities are certainly there. Like I said, I think everyone is just happy with how things are currently going.

Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. What age group?

The former FPYC player footprint in the boys DA, and DC in particular, is actually surprisingly large, but that has more to do with the quality of players that were developed and/or passed through during the Joga years than anything.

By my count, former FPYC players from 06-02 at DA clubs: 4 Bethesda, 8 DC, 2 VDA, 1 Loudoun, 6 Arlington. Another is now in Holland and just got called up to the U15 national team. That is quite impressive and something a small club should be proud of, but instead they refused to support those responsible for doing that work, cast their lot with UK Elite (real appealing to the latino immigrant pop - NOT), and it's been a steady decline ever since.

There are still some good players that remain in those age groups, but no, they are not DA caliber. That is in no in no way meant as an insult, it's just reality. They are good players, and it's great they are enjoying the game and playing good soccer, but it is just not accurate to imply that the only reason they won't be noticed and selected for higher levels is because they chose not to join DA teams.

It should also be noted that the FPYC technical director was listed as a DC United youth scout, so presumably if FPYC had DA quality players, he would have scouted them.

There are definitely more than one Joga/FPYC kid playing in Europe right now but you mentioned the one in Holland that was recently called up for the U15 NT. When did he play for Joga or FPYC? My son is younger but has trained with Joga for years and I never saw him around any training session but I definitely saw his younger brother and sister at Joga. The younger brother definitely played for FPYC as well. I love giving credit when credit is due but I'm not sure about this one. Help me out. Thanks.

For one season - in 2014-15. The same year his younger brother was with the U9s. When Joga left FPYC and went off on its own, he turned them down and went to LMVSC instead. A year later he left for DCU, then the next year he moved to Holland. Before Joga/FPYC I think he may have played for Barca and CYA.

Some coaches love to take credit for any kid who ever passed through, however briefly. I've even seen kids listed on websites or mentioned on twitter who only guest played in a couple of tournaments, or attended a clinic or two. If a player was on a team for a whole year, then yeah, I think it's fair to say the coach had an impact. As far as credit for "developing" the player though, I think they'd need to be there for 3 or more years at least. To my knowledge there are only 2 Joga players (brothers) who you could really say that about. The same could be said for all of the coaches who list all of the many national team or college players they've "developed", even when those players only joined a top team for exposure purposes relatively late on in their youth careers.

Thanks for the info. I had thought he was more LMVSC than Joga so thanks. Yes I agree with you that they can take credit for the brothers in Denmark but that's about it. I think they can take credit for a lot of players in DAs though. I agree that it's funny how they take credit for so many others though.