Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

Well, how is that working? It sounds like it isn't. Time to try time outs!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated. I know that the aggression is rooted in jealousy. We are doing SO much to combat that. Ample 1:1 attention, emotional connections. We practice Positive Parenting. We do not react when he hurts the brother, because negative attention is attention!

I am exhausted. I cannot leave them alone for a single second. Not only that, but when we are together I have to actively watching. I cannot cook or do laundry or pee or shower unless I have one child with me.

3 year old will push over the 19 month old ANY time he walks by. He just pushed him into the wall. Yesterday he almost pushed him down the stairs. He’ll tackle, squeeze his neck, etc.

We are terrified of him really hurting the baby.

We are doing all we can. Please help.

You are not doing all you can. You are doing nothing. Discipline your kid. There is a lot of ground between what you are doing and beating his ass. Find something acceptable for you and your DH and DO IT. Don't wait until you end up in the ER because he shoved your baby down the stairs.

Are you a parent to two children? I really want to know what you’ve done and how it works.

I do, in fact, have two boys that are 17 months apart. We used time outs/separation/stopping the activity really effectively at that age. Separation still works at 7 and 8.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. Live time update:

Ok, so just now he rammed brother into a wall.

I firmly picked him up, said we do not hurt brother, and put him in the chair in the corner. Said he had to sit for 3 minutes.

He’s throwing a fit, banging his head on the wall, falling off the chair, screaming.

Normal, right? He’s going to hurt himself. Ughhhh

He's not going to hurt himself, he's on a chair not balancing on top of a dresser or countertop. You have to repair bad behavior so its not going to work immediately. He has to SIT in the chair for 3 minutes to win freedom. Keep putting him back until he sits for 3 minutes. The first couple weeks of this will suck but it will pay off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

At what point do you admit this philosophy is not working for your child in the moment? When he knocks his brother down the stairs? I would start reacting and saying no if I were you.

You’re exactly right. It isn’t working.

I think I’ve gotten some really good advice on how to move into time outs while maintaining the JL and positive parenting philosophies.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. Live time update:

Ok, so just now he rammed brother into a wall.

I firmly picked him up, said we do not hurt brother, and put him in the chair in the corner. Said he had to sit for 3 minutes.

He’s throwing a fit, banging his head on the wall, falling off the chair, screaming.

Normal, right? He’s going to hurt himself. Ughhhh

Completely normal. Watch the nanny shows. When we started time outs, it took a few times of a few hours of putting them in the time out spot, them running, putting them back...if he throws a fit, you wait till it is over making sure he is safe, and start over. Its not fun but necessary. You need to be consistent. He will get it eventually.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

At what point do you admit this philosophy is not working for your child in the moment? When he knocks his brother down the stairs? I would start reacting and saying no if I were you.

Thanks all. Live time update:

Ok, so just now he rammed brother into a wall.

I firmly picked him up, said we do not hurt brother, and put him in the chair in the corner. Said he had to sit for 3 minutes.

He’s throwing a fit, banging his head on the wall, falling off the chair, screaming.

Normal, right? He’s going to hurt himself. Ughhhh

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Your crying and begging a 3 year to change behavior is not going to be productive and is really confusing for him.

I’m guessing you wouldn’t let students hit each other in the classroom and have zero consequence. You are emotionally tied to your own children and you read a book that may work some families, but clearly not yours.

Your 3 year old hits/hurts anyone, you immediately pick him up and put him in another room, away from the toys. Every single time and immediately, even if there is another family over for a play date, don’t use their presence as a reason to be inconsistent. You say firmly “NO hitting.” With a serious face. Don’t go into a long drawn out explanation of family love and sibling responsibility. Ask him to repeat the rule. Ask if he’s ready to go back to play. If he is, you go. Praise him at random times when you see him playing well with his sibling. LATER when things are calm you can say “it’s annoying when Larlo takes your toy, huh? What else can you do when you’re mad at him?” But after the offense, be simple about it, but firm. And please be consistent. Otherwise it won’t work.

-also a teacher

Anonymous wrote:I’m really glad you posted OP. I am in the same boat with my 2.5 year old and 10 month old. DD is so rough with her sister and the JL Unruffled parenting is NOT working. I’m trying to keep a better eye on them now and stop things before they escalate. Yesterday I separated them with a baby gate. 2.5 was mad about it but I told her until I was assured they could play together gently and kindly, they needed to stay away from each other. I also have been taking away the toys that have been used as weapons. Kind of meh on the time outs as they haven’t seemed to work that well. Part of the problem is my 10 month old is really strong and a hair puller. Sigh.

There’s a new Daniel Tiger that has a song and it goes “Stop. Stop. Stop. It’s okay to be mad. It’s not okay to hurt someone.” We’ve been talking about that and it’s helping a little. You have my sympathies.

+1, although I'm one of the big time out proponents. We also use the daniel tiger song, 'when you get so angry that you want to roar, take a deep breath and count to 4, 1, 2, 3, 4"

I’m really glad you posted OP. I am in the same boat with my 2.5 year old and 10 month old. DD is so rough with her sister and the JL Unruffled parenting is NOT working. I’m trying to keep a better eye on them now and stop things before they escalate. Yesterday I separated them with a baby gate. 2.5 was mad about it but I told her until I was assured they could play together gently and kindly, they needed to stay away from each other. I also have been taking away the toys that have been used as weapons. Kind of meh on the time outs as they haven’t seemed to work that well. Part of the problem is my 10 month old is really strong and a hair puller. Sigh.

There’s a new Daniel Tiger that has a song and it goes “Stop. Stop. Stop. It’s okay to be mad. It’s not okay to hurt someone.” We’ve been talking about that and it’s helping a little. You have my sympathies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your 19 mo will start learning big brother's behavior, if not already, so you will have double trouble.

I feel like part of the story is missing. Is Dh involved? What is your definition of the 1:1 time and is it consistent/predictable each day? Is little brother "in the way" and "mess things up" a lot?

Do the 3 of you play together ever or tech them to play together- playdo, magnatiles for example.

Little brother is 99% blameless. Big brother will go knock him over the head, pinch, etc for no reason.

We play together A LOT to model good behavior. A LOT.

DH is involved and does a lot of 1:1 time too.

Have you asked your 3 yr old why he is physical toward his little brother?

He can usually rationalize it: “he was in the way/I needed that/etc”

That isn't rationalizing it. That is him articulating his feelings. You need to help him flesh it out.

"So you were frustrated that Larlito was in the way so you pushed him?" "Yes" "I understand that you were frustrated and it is ok to be frustrated with people you love but it is not ok to push. You need to go to time out or apologize right now. Next time if Larlito is in the way ask mommy to help you." Then follow through follow through follow through.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Yikes!

Okay, I'm with you 100% on the no spanking.

But, your response is an overreaction and is giving him the attention he deserves, but with NO consequences.

Based on reading this, your DS is literally begging you for limits and to parent him.

I'm one of the Janet Lansbury PPs, and here's something to try:

Next time DS1 is aggressive towards DS2, show no emotion. Calmly say to DS1 something like: "I won't tolerate you hitting your brother. You're showing me that you're having a hard time controlling yourself, so I'm going to need to separate you for a while. Go to your room for a few minutes to calm down, and I'll come get you in 5 minutes."

Yes, it's effectively the same thing as a time out, but I do think the explanation sorta helps.

I do agree he needs limits. Im shocked that I’m stumped. I was a teacher, a really good one, but this is different and it sucks.

You've gotten a lot of advice here OP. It seems like time outs of some sort are definitely worth a shot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your 19 mo will start learning big brother's behavior, if not already, so you will have double trouble.

I feel like part of the story is missing. Is Dh involved? What is your definition of the 1:1 time and is it consistent/predictable each day? Is little brother "in the way" and "mess things up" a lot?

Do the 3 of you play together ever or tech them to play together- playdo, magnatiles for example.

Little brother is 99% blameless. Big brother will go knock him over the head, pinch, etc for no reason.

We play together A LOT to model good behavior. A LOT.

DH is involved and does a lot of 1:1 time too.

Have you asked your 3 yr old why he is physical toward his little brother?

He can usually rationalize it: “he was in the way/I needed that/etc”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Yikes!

Okay, I'm with you 100% on the no spanking.

But, your response is an overreaction and is giving him the attention he deserves, but with NO consequences.

Based on reading this, your DS is literally begging you for limits and to parent him.

I'm one of the Janet Lansbury PPs, and here's something to try:

Next time DS1 is aggressive towards DS2, show no emotion. Calmly say to DS1 something like: "I won't tolerate you hitting your brother. You're showing me that you're having a hard time controlling yourself, so I'm going to need to separate you for a while. Go to your room for a few minutes to calm down, and I'll come get you in 5 minutes."

Yes, it's effectively the same thing as a time out, but I do think the explanation sorta helps.

I do agree he needs limits. Im shocked that I’m stumped. I was a teacher, a really good one, but this is different and it sucks.