Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon sounds perfect for my DD, who's looking for a small school where she can get to know her profs, explore the liberal arts, and befriend a mix of kids -- some jocks, some preppies, some hipsters, etc. We've talked to a bunch of current students, alums and parents; they're all very enthusiastic . . . until -- cue the John Cougar Mellencamp here -- they look you in the eye and ask, "You do know it's in a verrrry small town, right?"

So, for those of you who have kids who are current students or recent alums, of if you yourself are an alum -- how did you make your peace with livin' the small town life?

Yeah, I don't understand this worry. I went to a very small school (smaller than most of the MoCo HSs) but it was 45 minutes away from a sprawling college town - just like Kenyon is from Columbus. If they want to go urban on the weekend - go to Columbus - it's the 14th largest city in the country, has a thriving LGBT population, hipster stuff - exactly like the college town that was 45 minutes away from my insulated small liberal arts school. As long as someone has a car, it's the best of both worlds.

Columbus is happening:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/travel/williamsburg-virginia-and-columbus-ohio-52-places.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love Kenyon, but PP is correct about it being somewhat of an economic bubble: NYTimes Upshot article showed that Kenyon had 20% of students from the top 1% family income level. It's in the top ten colleges/universities on this metric--which is surprising for a highly selective college in the middle of nowhere.

As to earlier, which is a back-up discussion.
Looking at the CDS, Kenyon and Oberlin have nearly identical SAT ranges, but Kenyon average GPA is 3.94 while Oberlin's is 3.57. Kenyon has a slightly lower acceptance rate 25-26% to Oberlin's 28-29%.

Grinnell and Carleton have SAT ranges that are about 30-50 points higher, no GPA info but ranking suggest similar to Kenyon/Oberlin. Acceptance rates 20-21%. These two have the slightest of edges over the selectivity of the other two but we're getting into meaningless differences here--at that point you should look at preferred location, programs of interest etc over "ranking" in my view.

Oberlin stats are deceptive. Oberlin recalculates HS GPA based on core courses, removing all "fluffy" courses. Read here https://www.oberlin.edu/blogs/whats-gpa

Oberlin also combines its stats with conservatory students. Oberlin Conservatory is world-class and conservatory students' academic stats tend to be lower than the regular Oberlin students. This will depress the overall GPA.

Seriously, go back to College Confidential with this stuff. This kind of pissing match flexing can't even be considered natural DCUM thread drift. Enjoy junior year!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon sounds perfect for my DD, who's looking for a small school where she can get to know her profs, explore the liberal arts, and befriend a mix of kids -- some jocks, some preppies, some hipsters, etc. We've talked to a bunch of current students, alums and parents; they're all very enthusiastic . . . until -- cue the John Cougar Mellencamp here -- they look you in the eye and ask, "You do know it's in a verrrry small town, right?"

So, for those of you who have kids who are current students or recent alums, of if you yourself are an alum -- how did you make your peace with livin' the small town life?

Yeah, I don't understand this worry. I went to a very small school (smaller than most of the MoCo HSs) but it was 45 minutes away from a sprawling college town - just like Kenyon is from Columbus. If they want to go urban on the weekend - go to Columbus - it's the 14th largest city in the country, has a thriving LGBT population, hipster stuff - exactly like the college town that was 45 minutes away from my insulated small liberal arts school. As long as someone has a car, it's the best of both worlds.

Some kids have a strong preference for urban/suburban/rural.

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon sounds perfect for my DD, who's looking for a small school where she can get to know her profs, explore the liberal arts, and befriend a mix of kids -- some jocks, some preppies, some hipsters, etc. We've talked to a bunch of current students, alums and parents; they're all very enthusiastic . . . until -- cue the John Cougar Mellencamp here -- they look you in the eye and ask, "You do know it's in a verrrry small town, right?"

So, for those of you who have kids who are current students or recent alums, of if you yourself are an alum -- how did you make your peace with livin' the small town life?

Yeah, I don't understand this worry. I went to a very small school (smaller than most of the MoCo HSs) but it was 45 minutes away from a sprawling college town - just like Kenyon is from Columbus. If they want to go urban on the weekend - go to Columbus - it's the 14th largest city in the country, has a thriving LGBT population, hipster stuff - exactly like the college town that was 45 minutes away from my insulated small liberal arts school. As long as someone has a car, it's the best of both worlds.

I’m always amazed at the people who insist a college has to be located in or near an interesting city to appeal to students. One person’s love of cities doesn’t mean it’s for everyone. I went to a small liberal arts college with no real city nearby, only a quaint tiny town - and loved it. Almost all students lived on campus all four years and it was the perfect, tight-knit community for us. We almost always stayed on campus on weekends because there was always something to do - and we weren’t bored. Many people prefer small campuses and small towns or rural areas to go to school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good school. But no real economic diversity. Lots of prep school kids and public school kids are from places like Darien or Scarsdale.

Or Bethesda. BCC especially.

Yes, and the other thing about Kenyon, is the college owns the town, so it's more of a walled garden than rural.

My DS graduated from Swarthmore. It's located in a suburb outside Philadelphia. (a train ride away) I would estimate my DS went to downtown Phila once a year, typically for restaurant week. I guess knowing you have options to get away from campus is enticing, but every student is different.

One consideration would be the distance to the airport to travel home for holidays etc. Don't rely on college transportation service--those buses are never scheduled when your kid needs a ride!

My DS (and I) visited Kenyon, Oberlin, Grinnell, Carleton. Attending one of them (not Kenyon). Accepted at all.

Among these, Kenyon is definitely the most remote. It also has Greek life, which turned off my DS. Beautiful campus and warm faculty (at least 3 we met). Kenyon admissions said they know they have a diversity issue - ethnic, racial and economic and are ‘working on it.’

Grinnell - great school and small town. Need blind (others are not) and pretty generous merit aid. DC met with admissions director who was very upfront that they admit kids more because Iowa / remoteness. Seemed a little sportier than the others. Will support summer internships (eg if you are going to NYC for an unpaid thing you can apply for a grant of about $3K to defray costs). Serious about diversity recruitment.

Carleton - cute downtown. Nice independent bookstore (felt like a smaller Politics and Prose). Coffee shops etc ‘downtown’. I think the town itself is in stronger economic shape due to 2 colleges and a Post cereal factory in there. Hardly any merit aid, but like Rice they are offering financial aid to donut hole families. Was most affordable net price for my kid of the four.

Oberlin. Similar environment to Carleton in terms of a town. Difference is the surrounding community seemed most industrial than agricultural. Some town-gown tension.

Pretty certain he was singing about a different type of nonacademic small town. And he ultimately celebrated the smallness, no? But yes...that town. Halfway between Columbus and nothing. And Columbus ain’t much of anything. Nice looking campus, though, and a school that’s been knocking on the door of top 25ness for like 30 years.

Forbes 2018 private college rankings:

Carleton: 49
Kenyon 54
Grinnell: 65
Oberlin: 66

These rankings are more based on data regarding student outcomes and less on folklore (i.e. reputation among high school counselors) than USNWR.

The Forbes ranking fits with my perception, which is that both Carleton and Kenyon are more rigorous and focused on preparing students for graduate and professional schools than Oberlin or Grinnell. Plus, even to my coastal eye the PC quotient seemed off the charts at the latter two. For instance, not surprised at all by the school-sponsored race riot at Oberlin that resulted in a big fat jury verdict against the administration.

CDS GPA is not standardized. The reported ones are those each university/college calculates and tracks for itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love Kenyon, but PP is correct about it being somewhat of an economic bubble: NYTimes Upshot article showed that Kenyon had 20% of students from the top 1% family income level. It's in the top ten colleges/universities on this metric--which is surprising for a highly selective college in the middle of nowhere.

As to earlier, which is a back-up discussion.
Looking at the CDS, Kenyon and Oberlin have nearly identical SAT ranges, but Kenyon average GPA is 3.94 while Oberlin's is 3.57. Kenyon has a slightly lower acceptance rate 25-26% to Oberlin's 28-29%.

Grinnell and Carleton have SAT ranges that are about 30-50 points higher, no GPA info but ranking suggest similar to Kenyon/Oberlin. Acceptance rates 20-21%. These two have the slightest of edges over the selectivity of the other two but we're getting into meaningless differences here--at that point you should look at preferred location, programs of interest etc over "ranking" in my view.

Oberlin stats are deceptive. Oberlin recalculates HS GPA based on core courses, removing all "fluffy" courses. Read here https://www.oberlin.edu/blogs/whats-gpa

Oberlin also combines its stats with conservatory students. Oberlin Conservatory is world-class and conservatory students' academic stats tend to be lower than the regular Oberlin students. This will depress the overall GPA.

I used numbers from the Common Data Set which is supposed to be on standard numbers. Most selective colleges--including Kenyon, Grinnell, Carleton etc. do a similar recalculation when assessing GPA, but Common Data Sets--esp within the same state--follow the same rules. Oberlin also has slightly lower class rankings. I think your point about the conservatory makes sense. And, like I said, the differences are pretty meaningless in my view.

It's unlikely Kenyon's 3.94 is a recalculation removing all padded courses, as 3.94 unweighted (?) means straight As with probably just 1 B all through HS.

Oberlin for some reason publishes deceptive stats - even when it's not in its favor to do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love Kenyon, but PP is correct about it being somewhat of an economic bubble: NYTimes Upshot article showed that Kenyon had 20% of students from the top 1% family income level. It's in the top ten colleges/universities on this metric--which is surprising for a highly selective college in the middle of nowhere.

As to earlier, which is a back-up discussion.
Looking at the CDS, Kenyon and Oberlin have nearly identical SAT ranges, but Kenyon average GPA is 3.94 while Oberlin's is 3.57. Kenyon has a slightly lower acceptance rate 25-26% to Oberlin's 28-29%.

Grinnell and Carleton have SAT ranges that are about 30-50 points higher, no GPA info but ranking suggest similar to Kenyon/Oberlin. Acceptance rates 20-21%. These two have the slightest of edges over the selectivity of the other two but we're getting into meaningless differences here--at that point you should look at preferred location, programs of interest etc over "ranking" in my view.

Oberlin stats are deceptive. Oberlin recalculates HS GPA based on core courses, removing all "fluffy" courses. Read here https://www.oberlin.edu/blogs/whats-gpa

Oberlin also combines its stats with conservatory students. Oberlin Conservatory is world-class and conservatory students' academic stats tend to be lower than the regular Oberlin students. This will depress the overall GPA.

I used numbers from the Common Data Set which is supposed to be on standard numbers. Most selective colleges--including Kenyon, Grinnell, Carleton etc. do a similar recalculation when assessing GPA, but Common Data Sets--esp within the same state--follow the same rules. Oberlin also has slightly lower class rankings. I think your point about the conservatory makes sense. And, like I said, the differences are pretty meaningless in my view.