Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 12:56     Subject: Re:Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
OP again: Just writing to offer a big thanks to everyone for sharing experiences and advice. Would love to hear more!

Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 11:29     Subject: Re:Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Now, for a financial planner. I have for years shopped around for one and never bit the bullet because it's never clear to me that they can do something I cannot on my own. And yet, there is value in a third-party saying, "It is my expert opinion that you can/cannot do this, and here's what you should do." How to proceed in the search for a planner? Thinking it's worth about $1K for a few hours of consultation and a written plan.


Many planners charge a % of managed assets, typically 0.75-1.0%, per year. Then you get all the other stuff with it including unlimited consultations. Larger places will have a minimum of $500k, but smaller ones will usually have a much lower requirement. If you see yourself going back to them every 6-12 months for a check-up, this may be worth it. For example, maybe DW wants to start a hobby business and you need a third party to put a cap on how much you all will put into the business before calling it quits, etc. Don't underestimate the value of a neutral third party telling you both what you should do financially -- that'll reduce arguments.

There are no lack of planners in this area, so just pick one that is indepedent (not working for a firm that also sells you their own funds -- conflict of interest). Here's a long-shot if you want to save a bit: http://grandwealth.com/
They are in Michigan (so lower costs) but one of the principals (Steve) used to live in this area and comes here every 1-2 months. I imagine they may be lower cost, and have a lower minimum investment amount. I worked with Steve when he was at a firm in this area and he's a good guy, but of course do your due diligence as always.


There's about a 0% chance an AUM arrangement will be beneficial for the OP. Much better to just pay $1K one time to draw up a plan and return and revise as needed.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 11:20     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:OP, you have two little kids. Your wife has a job she hates and feels trapped by. Your fixed expenses (mortgage, at least) are reasonable. You make a lot of money and you save a TON of money. Your wife has spent a decent chunk of the past 5-6 years pregnant/postpartum, and no matter how equally you divide family labor, you cannot imagine the toll that takes on person's body and mind.

I get that you are risk averse, but please consider that your wife is telling you that she needs a break. Your finances will be more than fine and it sounds like your wife has the skills to be quite marketable if/when she wants another full-time gig.

You can make this happen - it will be good for your household and your marriage.


I disagree. OP seems like my husband who makes over 300 k and is still concerned about having enough to live and retire comfortably. I quit my job 5 years ago to stay home with our twins and because I didn’t like my job very much in the first place. I am gladly going to back to work full time in part because my husband became resentful of me staying home while he worked and in part because I was under appreciated are a sahm who took care of everything while he travelled the world climbing up the career ladder. That arrangement didn’t work for us at all.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 11:01     Subject: Re:Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I went from part time (0.8 FTE) to very part time (0.2 FTE) with similar incomes to you and your wife (I made a little more, but we were getting rid of the nanny), and it has been amazing for our family. First of all, DH has been able to be more flexible with his hours, and he got a promotion of sorts that increased his income enough to make up for the loss of my income. Secondly, it’s been really nice to have the extra time. With children and two working parents, I felt like we had no reserves. It was sort of like living with no money in a savings account. Yes, we could make our schedules work as long as everything went exactly as planned, but a car wreck or a kid in the hospital for a day or two was a complete disaster. Even a flat tire or a bad head cold could throw us off. Or god forbid someone have a birthday. Now that stuff is no big deal. If a kid is sick, they just stay home. If DH is sick, then he comes home from work and goes right into bed. If the car is being repaired, then I don’t have a car for a day or two.
For example, DHs mom was recently put on hospice care, and he has been talking to her most days and flying out every month to see her for the weekend. He wouldn’t have been able to do that if I wasn’t home to just handle everything with the kids (or it would have been a really big deal anyway).

I think there are a lot of benefits to having a SAH spouse. I would be the working spouse or the at home spouse, but I would not go back to having two working spouses. Not while we still have kids at home anyway.


OP: thank you. Very illuminating.


Similar situation here. Dh has a very well paying but very hours intensive job with unpredictable schedule and a decent amount of travel. He works a portion of most weekends, and probably at least 2 evenings a week. He is nationally known in his specialized field and that increase demands on his time.

I am a lawyer by training and have worked full time and part time at government jobs (big law before kids). I also have been and currently am, a stay at home. However, when I am working, I feel like I have two jobs since my husband doesn’t have time to be the default parent or help out much at home.

I would definitely make different choices if money was an issue, I had a different profession, or if I had a spouse who worked something closer to a 9 to 5 schedule. Most spouses in my husband’s profession, whether they are male or female, work part time or not at all.

I obviously don’t know your personal situation but law is a hard career to truly go part time and to still have career success. Many womem lawyers search for something else after they have kids. And don’t underestimate the burden placed on your family by your own job. The juggle is hard for both parties, and giving it up often makes every one happier because they have less on their plate, including the spouse who is still working.

Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:49     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
I was in OP's shoes, except spouse was fired. It was HARD, but part of what made it particularly hard was that it was not a decision we made together; spouse's employer ended the current job, and spouse chose not to look for another one without giving me much say. We worked through it, but it would have been a lot easier if we had talked at the outset about the additional duties spouse would take on, even though spouse did not want to SAH and we kept the kids in daycare. Now, spouse does all pickups, all groceries, all cooking, and all managing finances and house stuff. But, it took a lot of work to get there, and a lot of tough conversations and seething resentment. The current arrangement makes it possible for me to push harder at work to keep earning at a level where spouse does not have to work, and it makes our house run more smoothly than if we were both FTE.

All that said, the kids are getting older, and I am tired of the grind, so spouse is going back to work in the hopes that I will be able to step back for a while. We shall see...

Good luck, OP. If you go down this path, talk continuously and candidly with your spouse about expectations, timelines, finances, and contingency plans. Expect resentment on both sides, and do not let it fester. Talk it out.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:44     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Foryears when our kids were younger DH would say, "you don't have to work," he a couple years after I finally took him up on it, he expressed his resentment. I explained all that I do for our household (we still have cleaners too), and that bnb made it a little better.

I am the COO of our household. I am responsible for calendars for all of us, rides for the kids (or arranging carpools if they both need to be somewhere at the same time), arrang8ng for and being home to meet repair people or contractors, bill paying, vacation planning, budgeting, grocery shopping, meal planning and cooking, making sure the kids have the right clothes in the right season in the right size, have uniforms clean on game day, have all forms signed and returned to school on time, all doctor, dentist and eye doctor appointments (plus specialists for one child), etc. Its like I am the personal assistant for ALL When you look at what the job really entails (even without the cleaning), I am undervalued as a SAHM!


Wow I’m a single parent who does all of the above while working full time. And don’t have house cleaners. It’s called adulting.


Right? I do all this, as well, and I work (and I'm not a single parent, so kudos to you, pp).

What kind of message are you sending, first PP, especially if you have girls? Undervalued my ass. Who do you think does that stuff when both parents work?


I work full-time, husband "works from home," and I do all those things listed above and then some. COO of the household? Please.


+1

OP, do you want your wife to turn into this? "I couldn't possibly work because then how would the forms get signed and the uniforms get cleaned?"
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:42     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Foryears when our kids were younger DH would say, "you don't have to work," he a couple years after I finally took him up on it, he expressed his resentment. I explained all that I do for our household (we still have cleaners too), and that bnb made it a little better.

I am the COO of our household. I am responsible for calendars for all of us, rides for the kids (or arranging carpools if they both need to be somewhere at the same time), arrang8ng for and being home to meet repair people or contractors, bill paying, vacation planning, budgeting, grocery shopping, meal planning and cooking, making sure the kids have the right clothes in the right season in the right size, have uniforms clean on game day, have all forms signed and returned to school on time, all doctor, dentist and eye doctor appointments (plus specialists for one child), etc. Its like I am the personal assistant for ALL When you look at what the job really entails (even without the cleaning), I am undervalued as a SAHM!


Wow I’m a single parent who does all of the above while working full time. And don’t have house cleaners. It’s called adulting.


Right? I do all this, as well, and I work (and I'm not a single parent, so kudos to you, pp).

What kind of message are you sending, first PP, especially if you have girls? Undervalued my ass. Who do you think does that stuff when both parents work?


I work full-time, husband "works from home," and I do all those things listed above and then some. COO of the household? Please.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:38     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Looking at your wife's progression as an attorney, I would suggest that she will have difficulty finding comparable employment after taking time off. 100K nonprofit lawyer jobs are, believe it or not, highly, highly sought after by exactly the type of woman your wife is--a highly skilled, credentialed, mother. Once someone nabs that job, they usually don't give them up, so they don't come open very often.

How stable is YOUR job, OP? I know plenty of people who make excellent salaries who could not, realistically speaking, replicate those salaries again if they lost their jobs. There are various reasons for this, but it's ignorant to pretend it's not true.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:33     Subject: Re:Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:

Now, for a financial planner. I have for years shopped around for one and never bit the bullet because it's never clear to me that they can do something I cannot on my own. And yet, there is value in a third-party saying, "It is my expert opinion that you can/cannot do this, and here's what you should do." How to proceed in the search for a planner? Thinking it's worth about $1K for a few hours of consultation and a written plan.


Many planners charge a % of managed assets, typically 0.75-1.0%, per year. Then you get all the other stuff with it including unlimited consultations. Larger places will have a minimum of $500k, but smaller ones will usually have a much lower requirement. If you see yourself going back to them every 6-12 months for a check-up, this may be worth it. For example, maybe DW wants to start a hobby business and you need a third party to put a cap on how much you all will put into the business before calling it quits, etc. Don't underestimate the value of a neutral third party telling you both what you should do financially -- that'll reduce arguments.

There are no lack of planners in this area, so just pick one that is indepedent (not working for a firm that also sells you their own funds -- conflict of interest). Here's a long-shot if you want to save a bit: http://grandwealth.com/
They are in Michigan (so lower costs) but one of the principals (Steve) used to live in this area and comes here every 1-2 months. I imagine they may be lower cost, and have a lower minimum investment amount. I worked with Steve when he was at a firm in this area and he's a good guy, but of course do your due diligence as always.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:27     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you have two little kids. Your wife has a job she hates and feels trapped by. Your fixed expenses (mortgage, at least) are reasonable. You make a lot of money and you save a TON of money. Your wife has spent a decent chunk of the past 5-6 years pregnant/postpartum, and no matter how equally you divide family labor, you cannot imagine the toll that takes on person's body and mind.

I get that you are risk averse, but please consider that your wife is telling you that she needs a break. Your finances will be more than fine and it sounds like your wife has the skills to be quite marketable if/when she wants another full-time gig.

You can make this happen - it will be good for your household and your marriage.



Yeah, so has every freaking mother you meet, including those who work demanding full-time jobs.


Yep, totally true. But I would want my spouse who makes $300k and is standing between me and a mental/physical break from the slog of work and little kids and feeling miserable in my day to day life to know that he is choosing my resentment over my happiness.


What about HIS happiness? You sound like a martyr, and it's annoying and unattractive.

She should look for another job, OP. Her quitting work while having kids in full-time school so she can 'pursue hobbies' is a disaster in the making.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:15     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you have two little kids. Your wife has a job she hates and feels trapped by. Your fixed expenses (mortgage, at least) are reasonable. You make a lot of money and you save a TON of money. Your wife has spent a decent chunk of the past 5-6 years pregnant/postpartum, and no matter how equally you divide family labor, you cannot imagine the toll that takes on person's body and mind.

I get that you are risk averse, but please consider that your wife is telling you that she needs a break. Your finances will be more than fine and it sounds like your wife has the skills to be quite marketable if/when she wants another full-time gig.

You can make this happen - it will be good for your household and your marriage.



Yeah, so has every freaking mother you meet, including those who work demanding full-time jobs.


Yep, totally true. But I would want my spouse who makes $300k and is standing between me and a mental/physical break from the slog of work and little kids and feeling miserable in my day to day life to know that he is choosing my resentment over my happiness.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:15     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Will her current employer let her go part time (either 60% or 80%) of the time? It doesn't seem like it would hurt the family finances that much for you guys to go from $400K HHI to either $380K or $360K HHI.

To the extent she can either do grocery shopping and/or prep a bunch of meals on her day(s) off that might free up some weekend time for everyone.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:05     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:OP, you have two little kids. Your wife has a job she hates and feels trapped by. Your fixed expenses (mortgage, at least) are reasonable. You make a lot of money and you save a TON of money. Your wife has spent a decent chunk of the past 5-6 years pregnant/postpartum, and no matter how equally you divide family labor, you cannot imagine the toll that takes on person's body and mind.

I get that you are risk averse, but please consider that your wife is telling you that she needs a break. Your finances will be more than fine and it sounds like your wife has the skills to be quite marketable if/when she wants another full-time gig.

You can make this happen - it will be good for your household and your marriage.



Yeah, so has every freaking mother you meet, including those who work demanding full-time jobs.
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:03     Subject: Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Foryears when our kids were younger DH would say, "you don't have to work," he a couple years after I finally took him up on it, he expressed his resentment. I explained all that I do for our household (we still have cleaners too), and that bnb made it a little better.

I am the COO of our household. I am responsible for calendars for all of us, rides for the kids (or arranging carpools if they both need to be somewhere at the same time), arrang8ng for and being home to meet repair people or contractors, bill paying, vacation planning, budgeting, grocery shopping, meal planning and cooking, making sure the kids have the right clothes in the right season in the right size, have uniforms clean on game day, have all forms signed and returned to school on time, all doctor, dentist and eye doctor appointments (plus specialists for one child), etc. Its like I am the personal assistant for ALL When you look at what the job really entails (even without the cleaning), I am undervalued as a SAHM!


Wow I’m a single parent who does all of the above while working full time. And don’t have house cleaners. It’s called adulting.


Right? I do all this, as well, and I work (and I'm not a single parent, so kudos to you, pp).

What kind of message are you sending, first PP, especially if you have girls? Undervalued my ass. Who do you think does that stuff when both parents work?
Anonymous
Post 07/09/2018 10:02     Subject: Re:Interested in hearing stories about spouse leaving workforce or going part-time
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

(My wife is not interested in being a true stay at home parent. It’s just that she doesn’t want to be tied to a computer and a desk in an uninspiring job and she craves more flexibility and free time. She will likely try her hand at something entrepreneurial, or maybe dabble with hobbies. She’s struggling to find the thing she wants to do and wants the freedom to figure it out. She also wants more flexibility to be with the kids.)




That just sounds extremely self indulgent to me. Lots of people want to have the freedom to leave their jobs and I don't begrudge those who can make it happen. But if this is what she wants, she needs to be totally on top of the financial situation in your home, including being point person on managing all your finances and expenditures. To me that is the most important part of being the SAH Parent .. being able to live off of one income means you make significant trade offs in spending to make it happen.

If I were you I would NOT agree to reducing your level of savings. She needs to identify other ways to manage to keep you guys living well on $100,000 less salary a year. Is she willing to give anything up?


I agree with this. I just don't get why it would be ok with you that she quit work to 'dabble in hobbies.' Why can't you do that? Because she has a vagina?