Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 20:06     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.


SoLukas should just put up with this?


I think that is what these posters are saying. That it should be okay for kids with ADHD/OCD etc to continue to do behaviors to other kids where those other kids have asked to stop. I find that pretty hard to understand and I have an SN kid.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 20:03     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.


I'm the PP who was the female equivalent of the OPs son. The underlying problem is still there, but that isn't a reason not to do as much as humanly possible to mitigate the effects through medication, social skills groups, or whatever avenues available. Of course other kids should be taught how to be understanding and accepting, but there's also a limit to what any person should be expected to accept and keep coming back. The expectations can not be on one side of the equation.


+1. And the point of medication isn’t to magically make this better but to allow the child to curb their impulses and (hopefully) remember to use the techniques they have learned in therapy or social skills classes.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 19:56     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.


SoLukas should just put up with this?
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 19:54     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.


I'm the PP who was the female equivalent of the OPs son. The underlying problem is still there, but that isn't a reason not to do as much as humanly possible to mitigate the effects through medication, social skills groups, or whatever avenues available. Of course other kids should be taught how to be understanding and accepting, but there's also a limit to what any person should be expected to accept and keep coming back. The expectations can not be on one side of the equation.


Me again. To be clear .. I also have a tween DS with ASD, ADHD, and LD. The social stuff is HARD.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 19:51     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.


I'm the PP who was the female equivalent of the OPs son. The underlying problem is still there, but that isn't a reason not to do as much as humanly possible to mitigate the effects through medication, social skills groups, or whatever avenues available. Of course other kids should be taught how to be understanding and accepting, but there's also a limit to what any person should be expected to accept and keep coming back. The expectations can not be on one side of the equation.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 19:38     Subject: Re:Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.


Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.


Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.


It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying


No, its not. It isn't bullying. It's teasing. The other child isn't being intimidated, the other child isn't being harmed, the other child isn't being traumatized. Please stop taking away the very real experience of bullying by watering it down with this nonsense. The other child WAS NOT HARMED. He was annoyed. There is a difference.


Please tell my SN DD, who regularly came home crying, that she isn't intimidated or traumatized. I am sure she will understand the difference when you explain it to her. Also read the link I posted. Perhaps you can let them know that there is no such thing as verbal bullying unless an adult considers it "traumatizing."


Have you noticed something?

This thread is not about your daughter. The SN kid in question here is the one who is provoking. Not the one being provoked.

Again, this isn't bullying even if it is directed at a SN kid. That is a heavy charge to throw at a child who is calling a kid Lucas pookis. If that's what you consider bullying then you will have a long road of righteous indignation ahead of you which will serve no purposes other than to make you feel misunderstood. I suggest instead you try to see this for what it is: a kidmwho lacks impulse control and is calling another kid a completely unoffensive, yet annoying, nickname. That's all it is.


So basically we now all understand that your kid bullies other children and you want the school to treat it as “just harmless teasing”.


No, my SN kid has never bullied anyone, he has been graded and I've taught him how to deal with it. As a result, he's built resilience and doesn't have to fall apart when someone jokes with him. It's a great skill, you might want to try it.

Whatever SN your kid has, it obviously isn't one like ADHD or ASD where teaching social skills is a big issue, if not THE issue.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 19:37     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
NP here. Many posters seem to have the idea that medication and therapy/social skills groups will fix ADHD. They do not. They may help mitigate the worst symptoms, but the underlying condition is still there.

Kids with ADHD are often several years behind their peers socially, emotionally, and behaviorally. Many also lag behind on height/weight charts. People with ADHD may act annoying and immature, but people need to understand that it’s not intentional and have some patience. We need to teach our NT kids to be more tolerant. The kids with ADHD may catch up developmentally , but adolescence is an especially hard time for ADHD kids.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 18:39     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Besides the loss of friends, there is the high likelihood of school officials, coaches, and other adults refusing to write recommendations since nearly all ask about character and the ability to work well with others.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 18:29     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is the point of arguing bullying vs. not? The end result is the same: Lucas is going to stop hanging out with the kid, like anybody would with someone who annoys them. So will all the other kids with normal social skills who see this behavior, or who Lucas badmouths this kid to, and decide that the kid is obnoxious and unfunny and immature and not worth befriending. Congrats, the kid is now totally ostracized. So the point of not labeling it bullying is what, again? The kid is supposed to automatically have friends if he’s just unbelievably annoying instead of a bully? [/quote3]

I believe the poster who says it should be okay is arguing that OPs son should be able to continue the behavior and that OP should not seek further diagnosis.


Well, they CAN do that, but as PP pointed out, OP's son will suffer probably lasting social consequences. This also then plays out into general confidence and susceptibility to social pressures to fit in while in high school. I'm probably in the minority, but I view issues like this as at least if not more important than grades for a kid's long term potential.

You are correct. In the real world, social skills usually mean more than grades.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 18:07     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is the point of arguing bullying vs. not? The end result is the same: Lucas is going to stop hanging out with the kid, like anybody would with someone who annoys them. So will all the other kids with normal social skills who see this behavior, or who Lucas badmouths this kid to, and decide that the kid is obnoxious and unfunny and immature and not worth befriending. Congrats, the kid is now totally ostracized. So the point of not labeling it bullying is what, again? The kid is supposed to automatically have friends if he’s just unbelievably annoying instead of a bully?


I believe the poster who says it should be okay is arguing that OPs son should be able to continue the behavior and that OP should not seek further diagnosis.


Well, they CAN do that, but as PP pointed out, OP's son will suffer probably lasting social consequences. This also then plays out into general confidence and susceptibility to social pressures to fit in while in high school. I'm probably in the minority, but I view issues like this as at least if not more important than grades for a kid's long term potential.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 18:03     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:What is the point of arguing bullying vs. not? The end result is the same: Lucas is going to stop hanging out with the kid, like anybody would with someone who annoys them. So will all the other kids with normal social skills who see this behavior, or who Lucas badmouths this kid to, and decide that the kid is obnoxious and unfunny and immature and not worth befriending. Congrats, the kid is now totally ostracized. So the point of not labeling it bullying is what, again? The kid is supposed to automatically have friends if he’s just unbelievably annoying instead of a bully?


I believe the poster who says it should be okay is arguing that OPs son should be able to continue the behavior and that OP should not seek further diagnosis.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 17:26     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Calling someone by a joke name to annoy them is a dynamic that does not need to be explained to a middle schooler. He knows what he is doing is annoying. If he can't stop himself, he needs medication. If he won't stop himself, he needs consequences. If you can't tell the difference, I think medication should be started.


You do not spend much time around middle school boys, do you?



I teach middle schoolers and the difference is that they can stop. The OP's child sounds like he cannot which fits with his ADHD diagnosis. My son has ADHD and without medication, he is pretty annoying to be around. I doubt he would have any friends at all by his age (he is 12) without medication. Yes, many middle school boys are immature and like to annoy each other. But they ARE ABLE TO STOP when another kid or adult tells them to stop. OP- Does he take medication?


This sound entirely consistent with sensory seeking and poor impulse control that go with ADHD. I was the female version of this kid and, believe me, it's not that I didn't know it was annoying or that I even really wanted to be annoying .. it's literally getting too wound up and unable to stop. With time and maturity I learned to take a step back to rein myself in, but by that time the social damage was done. This is an ADHD impulse control issue and can be addressed with medication.



+1000 OP needs to get a psychiatrist and get her kid on medication. This behavior is typically ADHD and needs to be treated before her son becomes a social pariah and has no friends. If her DS had a doctor and/or therapist treating the ADHD, this is the what ADHD treatment typically addresses.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 16:21     Subject: Re:Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote: OP here. Thank you to those posters who have contributed meaningful comments regarding how medication might help and how OCD and impulse control issues could be at play here. My challenge is now figuring out which medication to pursue. Is it an ADHD or an OCD issue? We are already on an SSRI and that does not seem to be helping. And for those who thought it was no big deal the example provided were just one of many examples. He also says inappropriate things in public where his friends are literally saying you can’t say that in public and he continues to do it to gain the attention I suppose. So there are many daily examples of how this impacts his life.


You probably need to get a psychological evaluation to figure out the root cause of the behavior. By itself, it doesn't sound like OCD. It sound more ADHD and impulse control, so I'd talk to your psychiatrist about ADHD medication.

ADHD kids often have poor social skills and are less mature than their peers. This becomes a huge problem in middle school, where other kids are maturing rapidly while the ADHD kid is still thinking and acting like a 4th grader. He just may not know how to act, so he is essentially clinging to juvenile behaviors that no longer work. A social skills group may help.
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 14:01     Subject: Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
What is the point of arguing bullying vs. not? The end result is the same: Lucas is going to stop hanging out with the kid, like anybody would with someone who annoys them. So will all the other kids with normal social skills who see this behavior, or who Lucas badmouths this kid to, and decide that the kid is obnoxious and unfunny and immature and not worth befriending. Congrats, the kid is now totally ostracized. So the point of not labeling it bullying is what, again? The kid is supposed to automatically have friends if he’s just unbelievably annoying instead of a bully?
Anonymous
Post 06/30/2018 11:24     Subject: Re:Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.


Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.


I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.


So, I am curious what you would suggest.

Kid 1 calls Kid 2 names (or engages on some other sort of irritating behavior)
Kid 2 asks Kid 1 to stop, repeatedly.
Kid 1 hears the requests to stop, but refuses to (or can't stop, doesn't really matter)

So . . . what comes next?