Anonymous
06/11/2018 23:09
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
So do these failure to launch ppl have a learning disabilities or aspergers or ADD? All of that if untreated can also create anxiety, depression, anger in the person as well.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 22:04
Subject: Re:Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Op, I'm not sure why these frantic women are suggesting therapy if your son wants to move back home. Many of them are probably still raising young children and therefore at the first sign of anything they want to call a doctor or therapist. You should post this title in the 60+ older section of DCUM. I'm not saying therapy is bad but it certainly is not a once size fits all prescription for him moving back home to save money or figure out his next move. DH and I allowed our son to move in while he is working on his doctorate. This allows DS to save money and we get to spend time together. Are there rules or norms that we all try to abide by? Of course we do and it has worked out just fine. DS met someone and they got married. So now I have DS and dear DIL as well. We are now multi-generation living together. This is no uncommon and the idea that children lived separately after college is a fairly recent phenomenon in America. Many European cultures and other cultures allow their children to love at home until they are ready to move out. DS and DIL are saving towards a down payment and paying off student loans. My DH and I have no student loans, a cushy retirement (we've been retired for 15years) and own our home. We travel a few times during the year. We allowed DS and DIL to stay at home with us because they get to save money and it's an advantage we are providing rather than a hinderance. Times are vastly different that when DH and I started out. It's much harder to move up, pay off enormous student debt, purchase a home, save for retirement and start a family. DH and I paid for our children's undergraduate degree but expect that our children pay for their graduate. While DS is paying for his doctorate, we will provide a leg up where necessary. I live in a 6 bdr/4.5 bath house on 6 acres in MoCo (been here in the 70s), why would I encourage my children to go out and pay a stranger? Instead we try to keep money within the family. DS does help out around the house and it's money into his retirement, student loans, etc. Of course, we get statements every six months to make sure they (DS and DIL) are doing those things for accountability reasons.
Sorry for the long post but the point is have a frank conversation with DS, and from there determine if you can make a multigenerational family home work.
You clearly didn't read the OP or somehow missed the pattern of personality issues and spotty employment that her son has. Nothing is frantic about suggesting she encourage a man who clearly needs some sort of help to get it.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 21:55
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, you said you were conflicted in your title, but then you said you’d never dream of kicking him out despite him being rude. What exactly are you conflicted about?
I'm not sure what boundaries to set up or exactly how to approach it. One family meal a day together? Required therapy? How long before he has to get a job? Help pay HH expenses or do certain chores? Put in writing or not? We will offer help with mental health counseling (VA services are sparse) and probably a loan to get an inexpensive used car.
Yes, ideally breakfast. Mentally ill people often get out of synch with their days and nights and it doesn't help at all. Insist that he get up when you do and eat with you to get his day started in a constructive and timely manner.
The real question is what you're going to do about it when he refuses to meet your standards.
+1
Ding ding ding bingo.
There are good suggestions, OP, but none of them matter if you're determined to play safety net mommy indefinitely.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 21:49
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
I'm the PP who was asked what my DH thinks of his 45-year-old brother living at home.
Frankly, this has gone on for so many years that I doubt DH considers it much anymore. As far as I know, this has been a lifetime pattern. When DH was much younger, it really bothered him that his youngest brother got away with never doing anything to contribute on their family farm. He wasn't interested, and managed to get out of doing work that the other siblings were expected to do.
DH put himself through college and grad school while his younger brother has earned 3 degrees, a couple of Masters, and even a few years of professional school on his parents' dime. His parents once dug a LAKE on their farm, and planted an orchard and a Christmas tree farm - all because the youngest brother wanted to operate an orchard and tree farm. (The lake was for irrigation.) Now my ILs are in their 80s, harvesting apples on their own and the Christmas trees are completely overgrown...because this was years ago. Youngest brother never so much as picked an apple or trimmed a Christmas tree when the time came.
I could go on and on.
My ILs are nice people and I try not to judge them because I can understand, seeing my own DS, that utter fear of having your child never make it out in the world. Not having friends, not having romantic relationships, not having a life beyond home...who wants this for their child in adulthood? So they keep trying anything, everything, to help their child succeed. But having seen DH's brother, and DH's first cousin, I am skeptical that they could truly succeed in the world at this point. Or ever. There is something genetic, and yes a significant amount of enabling. But I see the genetic component.
It bothers me a lot, this whole enabling situation, simply because I think it sets a bad example for my kids. Their uncle is almost 46, doesn't have a job, quits anything he undertakes, and still lives with his parents and depends on them. Everybody else in the family just pretend like it's not really happening, but I often remind our kids that this will not be an option for them.
There are no easy answers, but I have seen enough over 35 years that I would never want to fall into this hopeless cycle. The adult child benefits from the situation least of all.
Frankly, this has gone on for so many years that I doubt DH considers it much anymore. As far as I know, this has been a lifetime pattern. When DH was much younger, it really bothered him that his youngest brother got away with never doing anything to contribute on their family farm. He wasn't interested, and managed to get out of doing work that the other siblings were expected to do.
DH put himself through college and grad school while his younger brother has earned 3 degrees, a couple of Masters, and even a few years of professional school on his parents' dime. His parents once dug a LAKE on their farm, and planted an orchard and a Christmas tree farm - all because the youngest brother wanted to operate an orchard and tree farm. (The lake was for irrigation.) Now my ILs are in their 80s, harvesting apples on their own and the Christmas trees are completely overgrown...because this was years ago. Youngest brother never so much as picked an apple or trimmed a Christmas tree when the time came.
I could go on and on.
My ILs are nice people and I try not to judge them because I can understand, seeing my own DS, that utter fear of having your child never make it out in the world. Not having friends, not having romantic relationships, not having a life beyond home...who wants this for their child in adulthood? So they keep trying anything, everything, to help their child succeed. But having seen DH's brother, and DH's first cousin, I am skeptical that they could truly succeed in the world at this point. Or ever. There is something genetic, and yes a significant amount of enabling. But I see the genetic component.
It bothers me a lot, this whole enabling situation, simply because I think it sets a bad example for my kids. Their uncle is almost 46, doesn't have a job, quits anything he undertakes, and still lives with his parents and depends on them. Everybody else in the family just pretend like it's not really happening, but I often remind our kids that this will not be an option for them.
There are no easy answers, but I have seen enough over 35 years that I would never want to fall into this hopeless cycle. The adult child benefits from the situation least of all.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 18:53
Subject: Re:Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
OP, I'm not sure where you stand on a contract. I think it is a good idea to have things written down.
However, if you decide against a written contract then perhaps you can hold weekly family meetings at which all family members are to attend. A family meeting is a structured event, you can even have an agenda and take notes, where you can discuss things that affect the family. It could be that you have concerns and it could also be that your son has concerns. It also can be used to celebrate successes. A formal family meeting is a good way for people to air grievances so that they don't escalate into arguments.
I didn't go back and read the middle pages so I don't know if you've thought about the suggestion of a family counselor for you and your spouse, but your counselor could help you with this.
There is a way to set up your WiFi so that you can easily turn it on/off. I've seen commercials for two different services that do this. I think you could do a quick search on the internet and you'll get it figured out. You could also call your ISP and see what they say.
Good luck, OP! I think you're doing the right thing in providing a soft spot for your son to land (I like how another PP put that, "soft spot") and then also thinking ahead about how you can help him move forward. It will be hard work but you're on the right path!
However, if you decide against a written contract then perhaps you can hold weekly family meetings at which all family members are to attend. A family meeting is a structured event, you can even have an agenda and take notes, where you can discuss things that affect the family. It could be that you have concerns and it could also be that your son has concerns. It also can be used to celebrate successes. A formal family meeting is a good way for people to air grievances so that they don't escalate into arguments.
I didn't go back and read the middle pages so I don't know if you've thought about the suggestion of a family counselor for you and your spouse, but your counselor could help you with this.
There is a way to set up your WiFi so that you can easily turn it on/off. I've seen commercials for two different services that do this. I think you could do a quick search on the internet and you'll get it figured out. You could also call your ISP and see what they say.
Good luck, OP! I think you're doing the right thing in providing a soft spot for your son to land (I like how another PP put that, "soft spot") and then also thinking ahead about how you can help him move forward. It will be hard work but you're on the right path!
Anonymous
06/11/2018 14:28
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Didn’t you just see the parents who had to get the court to throw the 30 year old out.
The answer is no.
You may not move back home. We expect you to find
A job and find a roommate situation.
Construction. Trash truck. Whatever.
Do not let him move home. He will never leave. Never.
Do not make it your problem.
No no no.
Yes now if it’s your daughter what do you do....
Kick her out. How is this a different question?
Anonymous
06/11/2018 13:42
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Didn’t you just see the parents who had to get the court to throw the 30 year old out.
The answer is no.
You may not move back home. We expect you to find
A job and find a roommate situation.
Construction. Trash truck. Whatever.
Do not let him move home. He will never leave. Never.
Do not make it your problem.
No no no.
Yes now if it’s your daughter what do you do....
Anonymous
06/11/2018 13:28
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Oh dear, does he suffer from the new Failure To Launch Syndrome???
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ascher-md/failure-to-launch-syndrom_b_6709206.html
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ascher-md/failure-to-launch-syndrom_b_6709206.html
Anonymous
06/11/2018 13:22
Subject: Re:Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A couple of PPs have said not to bother getting any agreement in writing, because you can't enforce it. On the one hand, that's true; on the other, the reason to have it written down isn't enforceability, but so that you can make sure you have the same understanding and refer back to it later. People's memories change.
It doesn't have to be in a formal way. "As we talked about today ..." in an email is enough.
This is a great idea and I'll be doing just that. That gives us a reference point to go back to if there are problems. We don't have a separate entrance but we don't plan to enforce curfews, just request a text if he's going to be gone for more than a night. The internet thing has been a problem in the past so I'm looking for some kind of an app that will limit the whole house on access to a few hours a day. Any suggestions?
Look at all the emails and letters the couple sent who had to evict their 30 y.o. son.
Yes, and that's a terrible and scary situation. And OP can't enforce it,a s I noted above.
This isn't a leverage tool. It's a touchstone for OP to be able to reassure herself that this was what they agreed on, so she can feel less guilt if she has to follow through on his not living up to the commitment. It's also because some people's memories may vary, but sometimes when they look back at contemporaneous documentation and see that they did in fact agree to X, Y, and Z. For some, that's enough to modify behavior. If not, it's at least a clarity for others involved. Believe me, you often wish you had written it down, if you don't.
But no, not enforceable on it's own. That's not the point of it.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 13:10
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Make it a soft spot to land for a short while. Then you make it increasingly uncomfortable as time goes on.
Meaning: rent free for one month. Then a contract and house rules are written up. Including an amount of rent and that he must hold a job working 40+ hours a week. The rent can be nominal at first while he gets his feet under him. If he has mental health issues, then therapy or addressing those issues can be part of the contract.
If he doesn't like these rules, he can find a different place to live. You want to attached BIG HUGE strings to living at home with you. Once he moves in, inertia is a powerful thing. So you will want to make it uncomfortable for him so that he's motivated to get out on his own.
Meaning: rent free for one month. Then a contract and house rules are written up. Including an amount of rent and that he must hold a job working 40+ hours a week. The rent can be nominal at first while he gets his feet under him. If he has mental health issues, then therapy or addressing those issues can be part of the contract.
If he doesn't like these rules, he can find a different place to live. You want to attached BIG HUGE strings to living at home with you. Once he moves in, inertia is a powerful thing. So you will want to make it uncomfortable for him so that he's motivated to get out on his own.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 12:59
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:OP, first of all, you have my sympathies.
DH has a younger brother living with his parents. He is likely gifted, has multiple degrees, and has worked an actual job for no more than three years of his entire adult life. He is 45. The stress of the situation has aged DH's parents considerably. DH has at least 1 other male first cousin, even older, who still lives at home. This is on his father's side. These cousins have always lived in separate cities, and really not had much contact over the years, yet the pattern of their lives is remarkably similar and I am convinced there is a genetic component.
I am scared out of my mind because I see a lot of similarities between our oldest DS and DH's brother and cousin. DS just turned 21, has almost a 4.0 in Honors, works during the year as an RA and has an internship this summer. But he is living at home this summer and it's a situation that's unsuitable long-term. I just pray he can get a decent job out of college and then we will help him get set up in some kind of living situation that is not at our house. The biggest mistake my ILs ever made was letting their son move home. He's 45, without a job, and he will never leave.
What does your DH think of his brother? I have a close relative like this, and it makes me so deeply sad. It's tough, strange thing to address when it creeps into a conversation.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 12:26
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Didn’t you just see the parents who had to get the court to throw the 30 year old out.
The answer is no.
You may not move back home. We expect you to find
A job and find a roommate situation.
Construction. Trash truck. Whatever.
Do not let him move home. He will never leave. Never.
Do not make it your problem.
No no no.
He is family. He is moving home from overseas. I'm not going to tell him he can't come home. I am going to offer to help pay for some therapy and set up a written agreement with ground rules. Suggestions are welcome but I won't tell him he can't come home.
If he is military, Tricare will pay. If he got out, VA will pay.
Nope. Not unless it was documented during his time in service. If it isn't service-related, VA doesn't pay. It is possible to get a diagnosis post-separation and then get the VA to pay, but that generally takes years and a lot of appeals.
VA will pay for counseling services. Financial assistance, no, but that wasn't the topic. Tricare, if he is still active duty pays for counseling as well.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 12:22
Subject: Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
You're looking for a tool to control your THIRTY YEAR OLD son's internet use?
Anonymous
06/11/2018 12:21
Subject: Re:Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A couple of PPs have said not to bother getting any agreement in writing, because you can't enforce it. On the one hand, that's true; on the other, the reason to have it written down isn't enforceability, but so that you can make sure you have the same understanding and refer back to it later. People's memories change.
It doesn't have to be in a formal way. "As we talked about today ..." in an email is enough.
This is a great idea and I'll be doing just that. That gives us a reference point to go back to if there are problems. We don't have a separate entrance but we don't plan to enforce curfews, just request a text if he's going to be gone for more than a night. The internet thing has been a problem in the past so I'm looking for some kind of an app that will limit the whole house on access to a few hours a day. Any suggestions?
Look at all the emails and letters the couple sent who had to evict their 30 y.o. son.
Anonymous
06/11/2018 12:17
Subject: Re:Adult son is moving home. I'm conflicted.
Anonymous wrote:A couple of PPs have said not to bother getting any agreement in writing, because you can't enforce it. On the one hand, that's true; on the other, the reason to have it written down isn't enforceability, but so that you can make sure you have the same understanding and refer back to it later. People's memories change.
It doesn't have to be in a formal way. "As we talked about today ..." in an email is enough.
This is a great idea and I'll be doing just that. That gives us a reference point to go back to if there are problems. We don't have a separate entrance but we don't plan to enforce curfews, just request a text if he's going to be gone for more than a night. The internet thing has been a problem in the past so I'm looking for some kind of an app that will limit the whole house on access to a few hours a day. Any suggestions?