Anonymous wrote:Here's the same source updated for Class of 2022.

https://www.toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-admissions-statistics/ivy-league-admission-statistics-for-class-of-2022/

And here is the data directly from the Ivy League. Applications are WAY up from 4 years ago and % admitted falling significantly. How is that not more selective?

http://www.thedp.com/article/2018/03/ivy-league-decisions-class-of-2022-penn-upenn-philadelphia-yale-university-harvard

I used this:

https://www.ivycoach.com/2017-ivy-league-admissions-statistics/

The best source would obviously be the common data set for each school, but I'm not going to invest the time to do that.

In any event, a dropping admission rate doesn't necessarily mean a schools is becoming more selective. It just as likely means that more kids are applying, and that the rising applicant pools include more kids who wouldn't have gotten in last year or the year before, etc. Every year kids apply to more and more colleges.

Then there's this: HB's Ivy League success HASN'T dropped over the four or five years. According to a PP, this year it's sending one to Harvard, one to Dartmouth, one to Cornell, and one to Ivy equivalent Stanford. The argument that the last four year's numbers for HB shouldn't count because Ivy admissions were easier then only makes sense if this year's numbers were worse for HB than those years -- but they're not. They're just as good if not better.

Finally, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't want to count the last four years for HB, you can't count them for McLean either. Looking at this year alone, HB still outperforms McLean. Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell -- all in a class that's 1/4 the size of McLean. You'd need 16 Ivies this year at McLean (ok, 12 Ivies and 4 Stanfords) to match this result, and you don't have anywhere near that.

Here's the same source updated for Class of 2022.

https://www.toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-admissions-statistics/ivy-league-admission-statistics-for-class-of-2022/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

You can't use 4 year old data for a fair comparison. Elite college admissions are much more difficult now than 4 years ago.

No, they're not. Harvard's acceptance rate was 6.9 percent in 2014 and 5.2 percent in 2017. Yale was 7.5 and now 6.7. Brown was 9.2 and now 9.3. Brown was 14.0 and now 15.2. Princeton was 7.2 and now 8.3. Etc.

FACTS.

Please cite your sources. Other sources suggest the opposite and support PP's observation:

https://www.toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-admissions-statistics/ivy-league-admission-statistics-class-of-2021/

PP here. Posters, please do some RESEARCH before talking out your a$$es

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

You can't use 4 year old data for a fair comparison. Elite college admissions are much more difficult now than 4 years ago.

No, they're not. Harvard's acceptance rate was 6.9 percent in 2014 and 5.2 percent in 2017. Yale was 7.5 and now 6.7. Brown was 9.2 and now 9.3. Brown was 14.0 and now 15.2. Princeton was 7.2 and now 8.3. Etc.

FACTS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From these data posted, McLean is indeed showing its strength in its superior academic quality among the non-magnet public schools. Apparently it's the elite colleges' favorite. Good for them.

Yes, actually surprised at the marked difference between McLean and the other fcps schools' results. I wasn't expecting that much of a distinct difference between nova public hs.

This is demographics, not ability or achievement. Most of the private colleges listed in the McLean’s matriculation list cost around $70k/year. Out of state publics cost around $40-50k. You would likely find a similar list at Langley or Madison.

Probably so. Also, the top publics in MCPS (that, unlike McLean, aren't losing 40 of their top kids to TJ or an equivalent every year) look better than Langley/McLean/Madison.

Actually we have 4 strong magnets in MOCO, not just one, so we lose even more kids.

Not true. Those are located in no mans land and require an hour bus ride in beltway rush hour to get to for half on mcps students. Most don’t bother applying, would affect their travel sports and ECs. Not to mention is just cruel logistics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From these data posted, McLean is indeed showing its strength in its superior academic quality among the non-magnet public schools. Apparently it's the elite colleges' favorite. Good for them.

Yes, actually surprised at the marked difference between McLean and the other fcps schools' results. I wasn't expecting that much of a distinct difference between nova public hs.

HB Woodlawn's results aren't posted for 2018 yet, but in a typical year they get almost as many grads into the Ivies as McLean and they're only about 1/5 of the size.

Wow, really? If it's consistently 5 times the number of McLean's for Ivies, that school is better than TJ.

You might want to brush up on your reading skills. I said they get almost as many but are 1/5 the size. That doesn't mean 5 times as many, even extrapolating.

If it is 1/5 the class of McLean, yet it got about the same number to Ivies as you posted. Then proportionally it's 5 times the number of McLean's for Ivies. What's wrong about the math?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

You can't use 4 year old data for a fair comparison. Elite college admissions are much more difficult now than 4 years ago.

And 2014 data is now 5 graduating classes ago.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

You can't use 4 year old data for a fair comparison. Elite college admissions are much more difficult now than 4 years ago.

Wait, the HB poster is comparing their Ivy admissions over a four year period to McLean’s in a single year?

That’s pretty asinine even if HB is smaller. The more relevant comparison would be Yorktown, another open admissions school of similar size, in the same year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

Last I checked Penn was in the Ivy League. Make that seven reported for this year. Don’t call people nimrods when you can’t even get your facts straight.

And this would seem to be a better source of information about the number of seniors in past years at HB than your numbers: https://www.apsva.us/statistics/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).

We don't have HB's results for this year yet, nimrod. That's why I used the LAST four years. According to HB's own reporting, the numbers were:

2017: 86
2016: 85
2015: 96
2014: 86

TOTAL: 353, or 23 FEWER than the 376 reporting for McLean.

So, yea, this year McLean got six into the Ivies: 3 Yale, 1 Harvard, and 2 Cornell. HB doubled that with FEWER students: 6 Brown, 4 Yale, 1 Harvard, 1 Columbia.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From these data posted, McLean is indeed showing its strength in its superior academic quality among the non-magnet public schools. Apparently it's the elite colleges' favorite. Good for them.

Yes, actually surprised at the marked difference between McLean and the other fcps schools' results. I wasn't expecting that much of a distinct difference between nova public hs.

This is demographics, not ability or achievement. Most of the private colleges listed in the McLean’s matriculation list cost around $70k/year. Out of state publics cost around $40-50k. You would likely find a similar list at Langley or Madison.

Probably so. Also, the top publics in MCPS (that, unlike McLean, aren't losing 40 of their top kids to TJ or an equivalent every year) look better than Langley/McLean/Madison.

Actually we have 4 strong magnets in MOCO, not just one, so we lose even more kids.

I’ve seen MCPS reports on student transfers and that’s not the case. Schools like Whitman and Churchill weren’t each sending 150-160 students to magnets, which is the case in several FCPS pyramids (Langley, McLean, Oakton and Chantilly).

Incorrect, most of the kids move to magnets in 6th grade. So you would need to look at those numbers. Also, now you are comparing 40 for VA to 150-160 to MOCO. Which is it? Remember, due to vicinity of the privates, we also lose a lot more to privates than VA does.

I hate the VA-MD debates, but you can't peddle false info, it is misleading to parents who use these threads for decision making.

About 40 students per class equals around 160 transfers out of these pyramids to TJ, so there’s no inconsistency.

I recall seeing an MCPS report about transfers within MCPS (I believe the impetus may have been whether students from the DCC were being disadvantaged) and having a distinct recollection the transfers out of the W schools to the MCPS magnets were smaller).

And I hadn’t said anything about students attending privates. My understanding from various Census files is that Bethesda and Chevy Chase both send a higher percentage of kids to privates than NoVa. Whether those kids are the same caliber intellectually as the kids getting into TJ is an interesting question.

First, Bethesda and Chevy Chase are only a fraction of the size of "NOVA". A better comparison would be Bethesda and McLean.

Second, there's not a private school in this area where the average student is of the same "caliber intellectually" as TJ. The AVERAGE SAT score is 2200 -- the 98.5 percentile. One third of the class are national merit semifinalists. No private school in the DC area can match this, including none of the Big 3. In fact, I know NOVA families that sent their kids to the Big 3 precisely because they didn't get into TJ.

-- non TJ parent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HB had a good year, with at least one student going to:

Harvard, Stanford, Dartmouth, Cornell, Northwestern, Duke, and Johns Hopkins in a class of ~80.

HB typically has "good years." Assuming conservatively that 4 HB classes graduate a roughly equal amount of students to one McLean (it's really five, since HB has fewer than 100 in a class), in the four years before this year HB sent combined:

UVA (21)
William & Mary (19)
Brown (6)
Yale (4)
Reed (4)
Pomona (2)
Georgetown (2)
Wesleyan (2)
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Northwestern
Duke
Johns Hopkins
University of Chicago
Wash U
Rice
Naval Academy
Vanderbilt
Carleton
Bowdoin
Emory
Grinnell
Macalester
Bates
Tufts
Wesleyan
Emory
Bryn Mawr
Smith
NYU
Carnegie Mellon

Not a lot of non-magnet school anywhere in our earlier with these results.

HB had 119 seniors in May according to APS, and the self-selection involved in students and families applying for the H-B lottery tends to ensure a high quality student body. Having said that, I don’t think these statistics outshine a school like McLean, where kids have gotten into all the Ivies and Stanford over the time period during which you compiled this data (and three kids got into Yale this year alone).