Anonymous wrote:What’s the criteria for being considered PG? My IQ is 147 and my sister’s is 153. We were both educated in public schools and then top privates and top universities. We were definitely bored in public school (even in gifted programs), but felt challenged in our private schools. We went private for MS and HS (my sister) and HS (me).

I wouldn’t call either of us profoundly gifted, so I guess I’m just wondering the point at which you get to people who truly need special accommodations.

It depends on the test. PG is generally considered to be 99.9% and above IQ.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

Here's an opinion from another Big 3 parent, as opposed to the public/AAP/GT contingent. There are lots of "average" children in the 140+ IQ range in the Big 3 classrooms. It's handpicked group, so there is a very different distribution than the public schools. And the issue of whether to feed your child's interests/desires for acceleration is a frequent question raised by parents.

My DC is no genius -- so your concerns may be completely different -- but she was academically well ahead of classmates throughout the elementary years. For us the it always seemed that she was flipping through the next grade's books and figuring out things for herself before her friends in the next grade or two. She complained about having to do group projects with others who couldn't figure things out as quickly. And her ERBs were always in the top few percentiles for private school students.

Our priority for DC in elementary school was to learn to master her emotions and impulses and how to work effectively with groups, figure out how to lead others, and relate to classmates of varying maturity levels. The school did a great job of doing just that. The stereotype of math science nerds exists for a reason - its too easy for parents to let smart kids to focus on their academic strengths and let their social and emotional skills lag.

Academically, we fed DC's academic interests outside of school when needed. She was a little kid, so it wasn't exactly hard to provide the content. A little multiplication here, a YA book there, and extended conversations about what was in the news or what she saw in a museum. Math games and crossword puzzles were great ways to build skills and vocabulary without drill and kill. We did enough that algebra in 6th grade was pretty intuitive and she coasted through the rest of high school math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.

It's causing friction at school to the extent that his teachers are putting negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain. He has many friends and is a fairly popular kid.

I doubt you are an expert on giftedness, as those who are know that there is a set of characteristics that often present together in gifted children. Yes, it's true that not all gifted children have them, but many do. It's not an issue of self-regulation so much as one of input processing. If one child observes and is aware of 30 different things while another only notices 3 things, the child who is processing more has a greater processing load on a continuing basis.

DS is highly empathic and sensitive to others' emotions. It's not easy for an 8-year old to handle, nor is it for older kids and adults who have similar qualities.

Maybe more is going on than you are recognizing. His behavior is causing an issue at school. Many kids are very bright in this area. Very few are that highly gifted and ready for middle/high school level work at that age. Your sensitive comments make me wonder what else is going on.

I agree. I'm the PP who talked about my experience as a highly gifted kid (147 IQ with a sister who has a 153 IQ). We were bored in gifted programs in public school, but did not act out in the ways you are describing. I would strongly suggest you get your son comprehensively evaluated, so that you understand the full range of issues you are dealing with. You need to understand his intellectual strengths and weaknesses, as well as any psychological issues he might have (and I'm not saying he does have them, but you need to get an assessment by a professional). Only then can you knowledgeably determine the best place for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.

It's causing friction at school to the extent that his teachers are putting negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain. He has many friends and is a fairly popular kid.

I doubt you are an expert on giftedness, as those who are know that there is a set of characteristics that often present together in gifted children. Yes, it's true that not all gifted children have them, but many do. It's not an issue of self-regulation so much as one of input processing. If one child observes and is aware of 30 different things while another only notices 3 things, the child who is processing more has a greater processing load on a continuing basis.

DS is highly empathic and sensitive to others' emotions. It's not easy for an 8-year old to handle, nor is it for older kids and adults who have similar qualities.

Maybe more is going on than you are recognizing. His behavior is causing an issue at school. Many kids are very bright in this area. Very few are that highly gifted and ready for middle/high school level work at that age. Your sensitive comments make me wonder what else is going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.

It's causing friction at school to the extent that his teachers are putting negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain. He has many friends and is a fairly popular kid.

I doubt you are an expert on giftedness, as those who are know that there is a set of characteristics that often present together in gifted children. Yes, it's true that not all gifted children have them, but many do. It's not an issue of self-regulation so much as one of input processing. If one child observes and is aware of 30 different things while another only notices 3 things, the child who is processing more has a greater processing load on a continuing basis.

DS is highly empathic and sensitive to others' emotions. It's not easy for an 8-year old to handle, nor is it for older kids and adults who have similar qualities.

Hi, I am the PP and I am not trying to be abrasive, I'm trying to offer a perspective that I think might be helpful. I have two kids. One is profoundly gifted, and while I'd call him sensitive (especially in his music), it doesn't really impact him in a school setting because he also is exceptionally good at navigating social situations. The other is very bright but has ASD and *does* have the extreme emotional sensitivity that causes problems at school and which is connected to an intense, almost painful ability to "notice" too many things--an exquisite sensitivity. I know there are many gifted children who fit the "ultra-sensitive" profile, but that alone is not unique to the profoundly gifted. I am offering the idea that you are conflating two issues that ultimately will need to be solved separately. Finding more academic challenge is not likely to solve the social piece, and it is fairly unusual for a school that serves at least a sprinkling of very gifted kids to "put negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain" if he's doing it in an appropriate way. Working with him to find appropriate channels for his intense feelings seems to me like a more productive course--and there are resources for that. I am not saying your child has a disability, only that the kinds of resources which help other kids with these issues might also help him.

If you have hekpful resources to suggest, please do. So far, your posts have been rather elliptical.

What’s the criteria for being considered PG? My IQ is 147 and my sister’s is 153. We were both educated in public schools and then top privates and top universities. We were definitely bored in public school (even in gifted programs), but felt challenged in our private schools. We went private for MS and HS (my sister) and HS (me).

I wouldn’t call either of us profoundly gifted, so I guess I’m just wondering the point at which you get to people who truly need special accommodations.

Remember that a broad range of IQs are covered by the label "gifted". A PG kid with a 160 IQ is as different from the gifted kids with a 130 IQ, as those kids are from the kids with a 100 IQ.

I have a PG IQ and I began algebra at the age of 9. It wasn't an intense experience. It was no more effort for me than it was for another kid of the same age doing arithmetic, I imagine. I never fit into my school socially -- I was just too different from the other kids. Even the excellent private gifted schools in the major city where I grew up told my parents that I needed more differentiation than they could support.

In the end, my parents put me in a public school, three grades accelerated, and I thrived both socially and academically. (The work was still easy, but at least it was new content.)

So OP, I think there are a lot of different options you can consider. My thinking about schooling for my child is very similar to yours, and I really do not think there's a single good answer. You have to balance what is viable in terms of working with the schools, with the need for enough academic challenge to not become bored and disengaged, with extracurriculars and a peer group.

I think that supplementing outside of school is often not a great idea, because of the time taken. Gifted children need time to play and be creative. I they are wasting all their time in school, feeling bored and tortured, they need that even more.

If it's primarily a math issue, can he opt out of the math classes and have a tutor instead? If he is truly that gifted you are not going to find a single place that meets all of his needs. You may need to find a place that meets 75% and is the kind of nurturing (or whatever) atmosphere you want, and address some of the academics on the side. Just like parents do with kids who are gifted in sports, music, etc.

Does he have synesthesia?

That often goes hand in hand with giftedness. There is an incredible amount of input they are processing.

I’d start by asking him nonchalantly if any of his numbers or letters have color, texture, taste, etc. If yes, then read up on synesthesia. We didn’t realize our child had it until age 12 and it would have been helpful to know earlier.

My “synnie” is an adult now and so thankful to be gifted with synesthesia. But she processes a huge amount of stimuli in a day through her senses that the rest of us don’t.

Honestly, based on what you've written so far, I think you'll be happiest with a program for highly gifted kids that will use those research-based strategies you reference, such as curriculum compacting.

That said, if you want a different perspective, as a parent of a highly gifted child I don't think it's particularly important that she be challenged to go as far and as fast as she can and "reach her potential" all the time. I want her to be engaged and love learning, and to get the support and coaching needed on the emotional-social side of things, which is often more challenging for her. If what the school is doing is leading to boredom, disengagement, and disliking school, then that's a problem. But it isn't necessarily one that's solved only by giving ever-more challenging material, such as letting a fourth grader do advanced algebra. Life is long, and whether he's working to the peak of his ability right now matters a lot less than whether he's staying engaged. And learning to deal with some boredom is indeed part of life - he's unlikely to be able to escape it, even as an adult.

We had an excellent elementary school experience at Haycock Elementary School in Falls Church. They have had a very large gifted community there for many years, and the teachers really understand the gifted profiles well. Because the cohort is large, there is a wide range of abilities and personalities and kids will almost certainly be able to find peers who are similar in terms of abilities and interests, and the student body is very accepting of quirks and unusual behaviors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.

It's causing friction at school to the extent that his teachers are putting negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain. He has many friends and is a fairly popular kid.

I doubt you are an expert on giftedness, as those who are know that there is a set of characteristics that often present together in gifted children. Yes, it's true that not all gifted children have them, but many do. It's not an issue of self-regulation so much as one of input processing. If one child observes and is aware of 30 different things while another only notices 3 things, the child who is processing more has a greater processing load on a continuing basis.

DS is highly empathic and sensitive to others' emotions. It's not easy for an 8-year old to handle, nor is it for older kids and adults who have similar qualities.

Hi, I am the PP and I am not trying to be abrasive, I'm trying to offer a perspective that I think might be helpful. I have two kids. One is profoundly gifted, and while I'd call him sensitive (especially in his music), it doesn't really impact him in a school setting because he also is exceptionally good at navigating social situations. The other is very bright but has ASD and *does* have the extreme emotional sensitivity that causes problems at school and which is connected to an intense, almost painful ability to "notice" too many things--an exquisite sensitivity. I know there are many gifted children who fit the "ultra-sensitive" profile, but that alone is not unique to the profoundly gifted. I am offering the idea that you are conflating two issues that ultimately will need to be solved separately. Finding more academic challenge is not likely to solve the social piece, and it is fairly unusual for a school that serves at least a sprinkling of very gifted kids to "put negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain" if he's doing it in an appropriate way. Working with him to find appropriate channels for his intense feelings seems to me like a more productive course--and there are resources for that. I am not saying your child has a disability, only that the kinds of resources which help other kids with these issues might also help him.

Anonymous wrote:I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.

It's causing friction at school to the extent that his teachers are putting negative labels on him when he responds to other kids' upset or pain. He has many friends and is a fairly popular kid.

I doubt you are an expert on giftedness, as those who are know that there is a set of characteristics that often present together in gifted children. Yes, it's true that not all gifted children have them, but many do. It's not an issue of self-regulation so much as one of input processing. If one child observes and is aware of 30 different things while another only notices 3 things, the child who is processing more has a greater processing load on a continuing basis.

DS is highly empathic and sensitive to others' emotions. It's not easy for an 8-year old to handle, nor is it for older kids and adults who have similar qualities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why must it be the latter only? I totally consider "a little more advanced work" to be differentiation, and at that age, going beyond that strikes me personally as unnecessary. But that's just my view. We have a gifted kid too, and are fine with not turning elementary school into an extremely academically-intense experience. There will be plenty of time for that in middle and high school.

I don’t think you understand what it’s like to have a child who is gifted, not just bright. Math is a joy for him, not “academically intense.” He wants to learn more, do more, explore everything that is possible. I can’t keep up with him and his dad who is mathematically gifted too can’t give him as much time as my son wants. We’re not pushing it. It’s what he wants because it’s fun.

My kid is years ahead in math and science too, thankyouverymuch, but you know what? Being gifted, bright, whatever-you-want-to-call-it in these subjects is only part of the overall school experience. It doesn't define who our child is, and we wouldn't want it to.

If your Big 3 is doing great at addressing everything but math, and in a way that's better than the potential alternatives, changing schools just to get a better math experience doesn't strike me as worth the trade-off. But again, that's just me.

No, I don't think our Big 3 is doing great at addressing everything but math. Being gifted is not defining, but as a former gifted child myself I do recall that being bored can be quite a painful, exhausting experience. I sat in my classrooms doing independent work, so I was separated from my classmates anyway. Eventually, I was skipped several grades, but it wasn't the best solution.

I think it's sad that we have an educational system that is terribly designed for gifted kids. We do much more for kids who need extra help because of disabilities or challenges than we do for kids who need the freedom to go at pace comfortable to them. There is nothing magic about the standard pace set for any subject in our educational system.

Most profoundly gifted kids can handle moving at a non-standard, accelerated pace without it compromising their social skills or emotional development. It requires tremendous effort for them to sit for hours each day through uninteresting, unchallenging curricula. Imagine an adult having to sit through hours of learning how to read each day.

I recommend CTY outside of school, and lots of enrichment. I think you may have to make peace with a school that provides less than you're seeking academically.

As a separate issue, I would encourage you to consider your son's sensitivity and emotional reactions apart from his need for higher-level academics. I don't think attaching it to his giftedness is all that helpful here. There are profoundly gifted kids without these issues, and un-gifted (to use an awful term) kids with them. Maybe reading about 2E kids would be helpful, or teaching some of the self-regulation strategies used for kids with ADHD or ASD.

It sounds like his lack of ability to self-regulate is causing friction at school and needs addressing, and the giftedness lens may not be the most useful way to achieve that.