Anonymous wrote:
When I started at biglaw, DW and I had a combined net worth of $100k. Virtually all of that was her diligent saving. My parents paid for law school so I did have no loans, for which I am forever grateful.

We were obsessive about saving and lived cheaper than the paralegals, in run down gentrifying apartments. I also hit the stock market perfectly (though it was an abysmal time to work, right after the recession with associates being fired left and right).

I left after 3.7 years (no fourth year bonus). I did receive full "cravath" scale plus very small above market bonuses for two of the three years due to being worked like a dog -- way mre hours than a typical associate, though I was an intense department at an intense firm so nothing spectacular about me individually -- just torrents of work all around. We lived off DW's nonprofit salary and stuffed virtually all of my salary and bonus into Vanguard admiral / institutional index funds.

We were a shade over $700k when I left. Now we have two kids and saving is harder, so we save $50k a year and not $175k.

We cleared a million a few years later, in large part due to investment returns.

Then DWs middle class parents both died right after retirement. It was awful and she hasn't recovered. But it's all randomly collided to make money issues sort of moot now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Kids change the game entirely -- because you're making daycare or nanny payments and sometimes both if you have extremely long hours.

The investments vs. loans thing is definitely an issue. Most of my biglaw peers prioritized getting the loans paid off ASAP -- usually that meant putting little/nothing into 401ks, having minimal liquid savings, and having NO other investment accounts. This is despite the fact that we graduated at a time when prevailing student loan rates were around 3% -- and the market was/has been returning far more than that. But people tend to prioritize it even if it isn't a financially savvy move bc you can make more in the market than your borrowing rate -- bc they just want to be DONE with loans. It's a mental thing that a lot of lawyers buy into.

I get why having kids would delay things. But for 20 something singles, the option shouldn't be (or at least wasn't for me) either paying down loans or maxing 401k unless they're living large otherwise. I maxed out my 401k since I was first eligible and through $$ at my law school debt whenever I could (sometimes the entire amount of my bonus since 401k was already maxed out with regular paychecks).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Kids change the game entirely -- because you're making daycare or nanny payments and sometimes both if you have extremely long hours.

The investments vs. loans thing is definitely an issue. Most of my biglaw peers prioritized getting the loans paid off ASAP -- usually that meant putting little/nothing into 401ks, having minimal liquid savings, and having NO other investment accounts. This is despite the fact that we graduated at a time when prevailing student loan rates were around 3% -- and the market was/has been returning far more than that. But people tend to prioritize it even if it isn't a financially savvy move bc you can make more in the market than your borrowing rate -- bc they just want to be DONE with loans. It's a mental thing that a lot of lawyers buy into.

I get why having kids would delay things. But for 20 something singles, the option shouldn't be (or at least wasn't for me) either paying down loans or maxing 401k unless they're living large otherwise. I maxed out my 401k since I was first eligible and through $$ at my law school debt whenever I could (sometimes the entire amount of my bonus since 401k was already maxed out with regular paychecks).

Anonymous wrote:^Kids change the game entirely -- because you're making daycare or nanny payments and sometimes both if you have extremely long hours.

The investments vs. loans thing is definitely an issue. Most of my biglaw peers prioritized getting the loans paid off ASAP -- usually that meant putting little/nothing into 401ks, having minimal liquid savings, and having NO other investment accounts. This is despite the fact that we graduated at a time when prevailing student loan rates were around 3% -- and the market was/has been returning far more than that. But people tend to prioritize it even if it isn't a financially savvy move bc you can make more in the market than your borrowing rate -- bc they just want to be DONE with loans. It's a mental thing that a lot of lawyers buy into.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My BFF accomplished what I think you're trying to do (DH and I were also big firm lawyers leaving in our 5th yrs and like the PP above -- left with the type of NW 18:09 is describing).

OTOH my BFF -- stayed in firm life until yr 8-9 when she was pushed out bc of not making partner. Left with a NW of 3/4 of a million. She had law school loans but they weren't huge as far as loans go -- probably 75-100k. Staying until year 8 was beneficial bc bonuses become much larger in later years, though you have to be willing to stay and work 24-7 bc firms tend to push out a lot of people before the can even get past the mid level yrs. She also got into investing in a big way in her 5th-6th yrs so she was able to grow her NW that way. And let's be honest a lot of this is how you want to live and work. For my BFF -- lived in a nice area but a very normal/not lavish apartment bc she was only going there to sleep and shower; she took maybe 2 vacations in 8 yrs -- both to Florida staying at Hiltons. But for her, she didn't feel like she was missing out by not vacationing in Europe or getting a bigger apt (this was in NYC - houses aren't an option) bc she honestly lived to work.

She was really down after she didn't make partner and was told to go -- she didn't secure a job before leaving, didn't look for work for like a yr, and as her parents/friends were getting worried about what she'd do financially -- she then let it be known that she wasn't worried due how much she had amassed. 2 yrs later, she has the kind of 150k job that you mention, and I don't get the sense she's financially concerned. I have to imagine this combo of going the distance on the associate path, saving, maximizing via investing, and frugal-ish living isn't super common though. Other than her, I've never heard of other associates feeling like they are "set" when they leave. DH and I certainly weren't, nor were our other mutual friends from what we can tell.

I'm in your bff's situation with probably a bit more NW. 7-8th year at biglaw now. I am also passionate about FIRE (financial independence/retire early). For me, buying properties helped propel my NW significantly.

Anonymous wrote:My BFF accomplished what I think you're trying to do (DH and I were also big firm lawyers leaving in our 5th yrs and like the PP above -- left with the type of NW 18:09 is describing).

OTOH my BFF -- stayed in firm life until yr 8-9 when she was pushed out bc of not making partner. Left with a NW of 3/4 of a million. She had law school loans but they weren't huge as far as loans go -- probably 75-100k. Staying until year 8 was beneficial bc bonuses become much larger in later years, though you have to be willing to stay and work 24-7 bc firms tend to push out a lot of people before the can even get past the mid level yrs. She also got into investing in a big way in her 5th-6th yrs so she was able to grow her NW that way. And let's be honest a lot of this is how you want to live and work. For my BFF -- lived in a nice area but a very normal/not lavish apartment bc she was only going there to sleep and shower; she took maybe 2 vacations in 8 yrs -- both to Florida staying at Hiltons. But for her, she didn't feel like she was missing out by not vacationing in Europe or getting a bigger apt (this was in NYC - houses aren't an option) bc she honestly lived to work.

She was really down after she didn't make partner and was told to go -- she didn't secure a job before leaving, didn't look for work for like a yr, and as her parents/friends were getting worried about what she'd do financially -- she then let it be known that she wasn't worried due how much she had amassed. 2 yrs later, she has the kind of 150k job that you mention, and I don't get the sense she's financially concerned. I have to imagine this combo of going the distance on the associate path, saving, maximizing via investing, and frugal-ish living isn't super common though. Other than her, I've never heard of other associates feeling like they are "set" when they leave. DH and I certainly weren't, nor were our other mutual friends from what we can tell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of associates who stay at big law firms do you think get pushed out vs. make partner? I'm talking about those who are working the long hours and weekends. DH is in law school now so just asking to be prepared.

At least 90% get pushed out or leave. At my old firm not a single person in my entering class made partner.

But for those who stay to the 9-10 year mark?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of associates who stay at big law firms do you think get pushed out vs. make partner? I'm talking about those who are working the long hours and weekends. DH is in law school now so just asking to be prepared.

At least 90% get pushed out or leave. At my old firm not a single person in my entering class made partner.

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of associates who stay at big law firms do you think get pushed out vs. make partner? I'm talking about those who are working the long hours and weekends. DH is in law school now so just asking to be prepared.