Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 08:55     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:Please don't crucify me for asking, but I really don't understand why so many parents prioritize language immersion. I fell prey to this myself and was crushed when we didn't get our top pick in the lottery. However, now that i know my child better, I'm fairly certain DC would have struggled in a dual language environment. And as a result, we would have struggled as a family to support DC.

Are there academic studies that show immersion is really better? Or is this this just the current parent obsession?



We had the option of a language immersion or English track and we chose the English track and it was the right decision. We were more interested in the kids learning how to read and write well in English and be able to learn math and science in English. The foreign language track can be another obstacle for some kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 08:50     Subject: Re:Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:Sela's really struggling and has been for years. The Hebrew attracts low-income AA kids from religious Christian families.

Stokes attracts far fewer FARMs than it did in the early years.

YY is thriving - their FARMs rate is thought to be in the single digits this year.


Sela is not struggling - it’s fully enrolled with wait list; and has been tier 1 two years in a row.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 07:21     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm bilingual and hired au pairs from the beginning that speak the same language I speak. The au pairs and I switch between languages often and is convenient. DC is 5 and can barely count to 10 in the second language. Poor child just does not have a talent for it, despite so much exposure.

So glad I did not go with my instinct to find an immersion program. Would have been great for me, but I think it would make DC miserable.


You're doing it the wrong way. Either you or the nanny should speak to the child only in that language. Or both of you. DH has spoken to our kids in his native tongue since they were born. I have only spoken English to them (except when reading stories). They attend school in another language. The best immersion is complete, not the confusing switching that burns kids out. My DD has the best grades in her class, other two also near the top.


Agree. One of us speaks Chinese as a native speaker, the other doesn't speak. We've hosted Chinese-speaking au pairs for years. The two Chinese-speaking adults in the home only speak Chinese to the kids, and only accept it in return. Extended family is also involved - uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins only speak Chinese to the kids. Like most Chinese-speaking families with kids in DC, we don't go for YuYing (program isn't set up to advance the spoken Chinese of bilingual students, and doesn't teach the traditional characters our children to learn). Our kids spoken Chinese is good for ABCs and they read OK, too.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 07:12     Subject: Re:Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Sela's really struggling and has been for years. The Hebrew attracts low-income AA kids from religious Christian families.

Stokes attracts far fewer FARMs than it did in the early years.

YY is thriving - their FARMs rate is thought to be in the single digits this year.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 07:11     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:I'm bilingual and hired au pairs from the beginning that speak the same language I speak. The au pairs and I switch between languages often and is convenient. DC is 5 and can barely count to 10 in the second language. Poor child just does not have a talent for it, despite so much exposure.

So glad I did not go with my instinct to find an immersion program. Would have been great for me, but I think it would make DC miserable.


You're doing it the wrong way. Either you or the nanny should speak to the child only in that language. Or both of you. DH has spoken to our kids in his native tongue since they were born. I have only spoken English to them (except when reading stories). They attend school in another language. The best immersion is complete, not the confusing switching that burns kids out. My DD has the best grades in her class, other two also near the top.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 06:52     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Sela = 57% economically disadvantaged
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 06:15     Subject: Re:Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.


But the SES case you are making isn’t playing out at DCB, MV or Stokes. And only Oyster is a wealthy school among the DCPS dual language schools.


PP argued overwhelmingly high SES involvement at A FEW CHARTERS, not every charter immersion school.
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PP has a point. If an immersion charter isn't teaching SPanish, there aren't a lot of poor kids enrolling.


Stokes (French) and Sela disprove your point.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 06:10     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not everyone prioritizes language immersion for school. We are teaching our kids another language, but don’t see the schools as high priority. The language immersion program boosters tend to be overly zealous and not easy to reason with. Especially the ones that think that non-immersion school kids are stupid.


+1

My husband speaks five languages and is actually against sending our kid to an immersion elementary. We value learning other languages, but immersion is not always the best way, and it's certainly not the only way, to do that. There are trade-offs with an immersion school, especially if you don't speak the language that your kids are being taught in. I feel like, while there are certainly benefits to immersion, some parents are just on the bandwagon because it's trendy, others are using it as a proxy for school quality, etc. I think that you have to consider all the factors--instructional methods and quality, commute/convenience, the benefits of a neighborhood school, etc., and decide whether a given immersion school is what's best for your actual kid.


Hmm I speak four and my spouse speaks 5 and we are very happy with our immersion school. Grammar and true biliteracy is vital for me- not just the ability to order some quesadillas from a patient waiter.
Anonymous
Post 04/06/2018 02:41     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:Here's an Atlantic article debunking the claim that bi lingual folks have better executive functioning. It is worth a read if your desire for DC to attend an immersion program exists because you think it will make their brain "better" than mono-linguals.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/02/the-battle-over-bilingualism/462114/


Atlantic article. Lol.

They had pro Iraq war articles.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 23:36     Subject: Re:Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the challenges of immersion study deters most parents of FARMs students from applying to charters, unless they speak the target language at home (Spanish).

With immersion in the mix, you get an overwhelmingly SES student bodies at a few charters (e.g. YuYing, 10% FARMs) like at JKLM, Brent etc.

Also, immersion adds extra challenge in a city without formal GT programs.

Immersion works to get high SES parents what they want when they can't afford Upper NW or the priciest Cap Hill real estate. Few will admit this but that's the story.


But the SES case you are making isn’t playing out at DCB, MV or Stokes. And only Oyster is a wealthy school among the DCPS dual language schools.


PP argued overwhelmingly high SES involvement at A FEW CHARTERS, not every charter immersion school.

PP has a point. If an immersion charter isn't teaching SPanish, there aren't a lot of poor kids enrolling.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 23:15     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Anonymous wrote:Here's an Atlantic article debunking the claim that bi lingual folks have better executive functioning. It is worth a read if your desire for DC to attend an immersion program exists because you think it will make their brain "better" than mono-linguals.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/02/the-battle-over-bilingualism/462114/


Exposure alone is not enough otherwise our language learners in DC schools would be doing better; however, even at schools like Wison and Deal they along with other subgoups are struggling. Data for language learners on the PARCC was poor, so speaking another language does not always help! Bilingual just like for English speaking kids is only is a strength when you are already academically proficient. Otherwise it can become a deficit! At CHEC there are what they call Long-term Language learners who stagnate and become lifelong ESL students, neither proficient in English or Spanish. I also don't hear anyone at DCUM clamoring to get their children into that school, which is full of bilingual children.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 22:54     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
My kids are not going to an immersion school but we do have some regrets that our second won’t be going to one. She is in a bilingual daycare now and the teachers say that she understands very well. It just seems like a good idea to keep it going if it already seems to be working.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 22:37     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
Here's an Atlantic article debunking the claim that bi lingual folks have better executive functioning. It is worth a read if your desire for DC to attend an immersion program exists because you think it will make their brain "better" than mono-linguals.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/02/the-battle-over-bilingualism/462114/
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 22:33     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
I'm bilingual and hired au pairs from the beginning that speak the same language I speak. The au pairs and I switch between languages often and is convenient. DC is 5 and can barely count to 10 in the second language. Poor child just does not have a talent for it, despite so much exposure.

So glad I did not go with my instinct to find an immersion program. Would have been great for me, but I think it would make DC miserable.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2018 22:27     Subject: Why does everyone prioritize language immersion?
I think it's clear many don't value or want it at all.

For us, we don't speak second languages and feel like this is something we can offer our kids that our parents weren't able to offer us (and there isn't much on that list given that we both grew up in lower cost of living places and had parents that were generally successful).

Thanks to their birth-3 nanny, my kids are very interested in Spanish.

We really like a few of the language immersion schools. (We got into Bethune one year and didn't go ... it still has to be a school that seems otherwise promising for the long term.)