Anonymous wrote:Idk. I think it's smart if managers look at where the employee lives. The #1 complaint people make in my office is that their commutes are so long. I really get sick of hearing about their 1.5 hour commutes. A lot of places are getting rid of telework or cutting back and it's putting these employees in a bad spot. They're blaming work for their lack of a work/life balance, when really they chose a job that was too far from their house.

If they agreed to the job understanding they could telework 3 days a week, yeah, having to commute three hours five days a week would not be what they signed up for.

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Anonymous wrote:Well, I have worked in NYC and had people commuting to work from Nassau and Suffolk, and worked in SF and had people commuting from Livermore. So I don't worry about distance.

And I don't know why you'd be talking about your kids so much that you're mentioning their ages. Stop doing that. Maybe you talk to much about your private life in an interview and THAT is the problem.

Hiring manager here. I agree with this. Different people have different thresholds as far as commutes go; you cannot assume anything here.

And I am confused as to why kids come up at all. Employers can’t ask, so why disclose this?

Well guess what. They do.

Well, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status - it is prohibited by federal law. Anyone who is stupid enough to ask that question is opening themselves, and their company, up for a discrimination case if the person isn’t hired.

It's illegal, just like paying women less money is illegal, but employers know that it would be next to impossible get sued for it. It's too hard to prove and so most lawyers don't want to take it on. That's reality in 2018.

Exactly. It's also illegal to fire for no reason, though they always tend to find a reason.

NO it isn't. You can be fired for no reason or any reason as long as the reason isn't something that is protected (e.g., you cannot be fired for being a woman, but a woman can be fired for no reason).

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and there are plenty of jobs I didn't get. I'm not overweight, well groomed, only apply for jobs for which I am well qualified. But sometimes, even many times, I have gone in for a job interview and not gotten a job offer. I have been interviewed and later found out, they hired internally or hired a contractor (so why waste my time?) I've gone in for an interview and was happy to end the interview asap because I felt the interviewer was someone I would not want to work for.

When I was on a hiring panel, sometimes there would be only 1 opening but 3 great candidates. Another time 1 opening, but no great candidates, only many lousy ones. One panel I was on, a single, ugly woman hiring manager did not want to pick a particular woman candidate, who was very well qualified and attractive, because it was very clear to the rest of us, she was very jealous of her.

Personal biases. They're real.

Idk. I think it's smart if managers look at where the employee lives. The #1 complaint people make in my office is that their commutes are so long. I really get sick of hearing about their 1.5 hour commutes. A lot of places are getting rid of telework or cutting back and it's putting these employees in a bad spot. They're blaming work for their lack of a work/life balance, when really they chose a job that was too far from their house.

Anonymous wrote:I'm white and there are plenty of jobs I didn't get. I'm not overweight, well groomed, only apply for jobs for which I am well qualified. But sometimes, even many times, I have gone in for a job interview and not gotten a job offer. I have been interviewed and later found out, they hired internally or hired a contractor (so why waste my time?) I've gone in for an interview and was happy to end the interview asap because I felt the interviewer was someone I would not want to work for.

When I was on a hiring panel, sometimes there would be only 1 opening but 3 great candidates. Another time 1 opening, but no great candidates, only many lousy ones. One panel I was on, a single, ugly woman hiring manager did not want to pick a particular woman candidate, who was very well qualified and attractive, because it was very clear to the rest of us, she was very jealous of her.

Does being at the lower end of obese count even if you're smartly dressed?

Two of the candidates were excellent, seasoned and likely to stay on the job until they retire. The boss, a male, preferred younger, more malleable women who would likely be more obedient employees. That was the first time I realized how much more goes into shaping a team than just skills.

It was also sad, but made me think more carefully about interviewing for a job and learning the agenda and culture of an organization before jumping on the team.

I'm white and there are plenty of jobs I didn't get. I'm not overweight, well groomed, only apply for jobs for which I am well qualified. But sometimes, even many times, I have gone in for a job interview and not gotten a job offer. I have been interviewed and later found out, they hired internally or hired a contractor (so why waste my time?) I've gone in for an interview and was happy to end the interview asap because I felt the interviewer was someone I would not want to work for.

When I was on a hiring panel, sometimes there would be only 1 opening but 3 great candidates. Another time 1 opening, but no great candidates, only many lousy ones. One panel I was on, a single, ugly woman hiring manager did not want to pick a particular woman candidate, who was very well qualified and attractive, because it was very clear to the rest of us, she was very jealous of her.

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone judge huge afros? Need to know if a wig is in order for my interview tomorrow.

This is hard. On one hand you want to give yourself every chance to get the job and sadly afro hair is still an issue, but on the other hand I don't really want to work in an environment where an afro is an issue.

I typically where my hair styled in a braided bun, so it is pulled back, but it's clear that my hair is not relaxed. I also try and take note of the hair of people in the office specifically how the the other black people have their hair styled and what their positions are.

I find it depressing to hear some of things hiring managers "judge" during an interview. I believe we are forgetting that an interview involves 2 parties, and is a two-way street. Hiring managers are also being "interviewed" and "judged". For companies, organizations and a nation that ostensibly advocate "Diversity and Inclusion" in the workplace, this thread certainly sheds a giant spotlight on the fact that we are very, very, very far from truly understanding what those two words mean.

Look, if you feel uncomfortable going for an interview with an Afro (my current style and has been for over a decade), being candid and transparent about priorities (e.g. family-friendly workplace with flexibility options, if that's what you need) that will contribute to your well-being as well as the company's in term of productivity, creativity, and profitability; or where your zip code or name will work against you; then you might want to reconsider following through with the interview, and eventually working for that organisation.

There is a tendency to look at work and life as disparate entities, when in reality, they are one in the same. Life is work and work is part of life. They are intertwined. Hiring managers, don't miss out on working with some talented individuals based on your biases. I know that if I was ever made to feel uncomfortable in the slightest sense during an interview for my gender, the color of skin, for HAVING kids, for wearing an afro, you better believe that would raise RED FLAGS for me and would influence my decision to continue with the application process.

I guess I've reached an age and level of courage and confidence (as well as a better understanding of the broken recruiting system) where I know my worth, the options before me, and the things I am NOT willing to tolerate in the workplace. My health, well-being, and family are much too precious too squander on an interviewer/hiring manager or a workplace with a myopic interpretation of a diverse and inclusive workplace.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone judge huge afros? Need to know if a wig is in order for my interview tomorrow.

This is hard. On one hand you want to give yourself every chance to get the job and sadly afro hair is still an issue, but on the other hand I don't really want to work in an environment where an afro is an issue.

I typically where my hair styled in a braided bun, so it is pulled back, but it's clear that my hair is not relaxed. I also try and take note of the hair of people in the office specifically how the the other black people have their hair styled and what their positions are.

I get concerned about candidates who live a long distance from our office.

I'm also amazed by the number of people who unnecessarily share personal details that work against them (my elderly mom moved in with us, my baby cried all night, I've had bad health issues but I'm okay now!, etc.) Once I hear those things, I can't un-know them.

I think less of candidates who come in with ungroomed nails (I don't care if they're manicured or painted, but expect them to be clean, and not jagged), banged up shoes, too much cologne/perfume, too-short skirts, etc. I guess I'm showing my age, but I'm also disappointed at how many people can't be bothered to wear business attire to an interview.

And, I too hate the cheesy personal email addresses. Your email address should be some variation of your name.

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Anonymous wrote:Well, I have worked in NYC and had people commuting to work from Nassau and Suffolk, and worked in SF and had people commuting from Livermore. So I don't worry about distance.

And I don't know why you'd be talking about your kids so much that you're mentioning their ages. Stop doing that. Maybe you talk to much about your private life in an interview and THAT is the problem.

Hiring manager here. I agree with this. Different people have different thresholds as far as commutes go; you cannot assume anything here.

And I am confused as to why kids come up at all. Employers can’t ask, so why disclose this?

Well guess what. They do.

Well, it is illegal to discriminate based on familial status - it is prohibited by federal law. Anyone who is stupid enough to ask that question is opening themselves, and their company, up for a discrimination case if the person isn’t hired.

It's illegal, just like paying women less money is illegal, but employers know that it would be next to impossible get sued for it. It's too hard to prove and so most lawyers don't want to take it on. That's reality in 2018.

Exactly. It's also illegal to fire for no reason, though they always tend to find a reason.

Does anyone judge huge afros? Need to know if a wig is in order for my interview tomorrow.

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Anonymous wrote:Don't put your address on your resume. While I shouldn't factor that in, I do wonder if the applicant is going to have commute issues.

I also wouldn't volunteer anything about your family life.

100+ do not put an address on your resume. Not only might people judge the distance but your neighborhood too. As a person of color, I try to remove anything that might trigger bias.

Yep. I do the same as a POC. There is nothing on my resume that gives away my POC status. I used to live in Prince George's County and left my address off back then. Now I live in MoCo and sometimes leave it on.

I have young relatives with obviously ethnic names and have counseled them successfully to do the same. Ex, Dashaun Smith on resume is now Shaun Smith. Still potentially black, but not the same red flag to a hiring manager. This stuff matters so much.

+100. I am a person of color with a difficult to pronounce foreign name and I use a nickname on my resume. I understand clearly that the length of my name might frighten some folks. A college Professor once referred to me as the one with the wild name. My accent is very mild but the next thing I need to work on is my weight. I remember reading a career book stating that overweight women are judged unfairly in the corporate world. I never bring up kids in interviews, never been asked either. Commute question comes up subtely a la "How long did it take to get here/which route did you take?"

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Anonymous wrote:What i don't get is if people discriminate based on where you live - why do they call you in for an interview in the first place? Seems like a waste of time and if your address is on the cover letter/resume, then they already know you're too far away for them (if they discriminate).

And I agree about not saying anything about your family in an interview. If questions come up like "what do you like to do in your spare time" or things like that - list your own hobbies - "I like to go hiking, reading, camping, whatever" Don't say "I have to drive my kids all over town for their after school activities."

Not when the candidate looks good on paper otherwise and can offer some suggestions to make your org. a better place. Plenty of employers are prone to glean intel from interviewees I would imagine.

Or am I wrong?

You're wrong. Most hiring managers tend to be busy. I am not going to interview someone I've already written off. Also, there are much better ways to "glean intel" or learn to make my org a better place with the time it would take to sit through an interview.

Anonymous wrote:What i don't get is if people discriminate based on where you live - why do they call you in for an interview in the first place? Seems like a waste of time and if your address is on the cover letter/resume, then they already know you're too far away for them (if they discriminate).

And I agree about not saying anything about your family in an interview. If questions come up like "what do you like to do in your spare time" or things like that - list your own hobbies - "I like to go hiking, reading, camping, whatever" Don't say "I have to drive my kids all over town for their after school activities."

Not when the candidate looks good on paper otherwise and can offer some suggestions to make your org. a better place. Plenty of employers are prone to glean intel from interviewees I would imagine.

Or am I wrong?