Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any pointers to help men that think that their wives are cheating? Years ago, my wife had an emotional affair and I made some mistakes because I was so hurt. I haven't really healed from it because, in part, I think that she's still lying about parts of it. I was too quick to show her evidence I found whenever I found something new. This allowed her to make additional ways to contact the guy. If I just had let the communications to continue longer without exposing her, I could have had a better picture about what she was saying about me. I wasn't patience enough and it just became a game.

We are still together, but we have a lot more at stake -like kids. I completely think that audits are a good thing. Once a quarter, do those things you would do to find a cheater. However, don't advertise it. You will probably catch the person off guard because they aren't aware about what you are doing. I also just assume that cheating is one way for her to deal with stress. Cheaters will make things up to justify their actions. They will build a case inside their heads and blame you for being the terrible person. You will read a lot about sexless marriages, and it's mostly just the top excuse. She is just refusing to have it -trust me. She will always move the goalposts when it comes to expectations.

These are just things I found to be helpful. If anyone has anything to add that would be great.

It sounds like she cheated to begin with and you took her back. Cheating is cheating, it's not black or grey.

People on this board that think it's normal, ok etc. are living dysfunctional lives. The cheater is the only person to blame no matter what the other spouse did or didn't do. Everyone is responsible for their behavior.

I would definitely spot check someone that cheated on me. When you are good enough to give them 1 more chance they shouldn't blow it, and make changes to be a positive role model for their spouse and kids.

I agree with spot checking, but I would go further and be open about my right to do so. An unfaithful partner who won't agree to give you unfettered access to all accounts, communications, phone, etc., forever, is a partner who simply isn't ready to even try to be faithful.

For those of you who say that is no way to live, I agree. but, neither is it any way to live for the perpetrator to continue to be able to keep secrets and for the victim to continue to make decisions without all available info.

Once a spouse has an affair, the victim spouse has only a range of bad choices. Since they are the victim, they get to choose - ewhat do they need to recover?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any pointers to help men that think that their wives are cheating? Years ago, my wife had an emotional affair and I made some mistakes because I was so hurt. I haven't really healed from it because, in part, I think that she's still lying about parts of it. I was too quick to show her evidence I found whenever I found something new. This allowed her to make additional ways to contact the guy. If I just had let the communications to continue longer without exposing her, I could have had a better picture about what she was saying about me. I wasn't patience enough and it just became a game.

We are still together, but we have a lot more at stake -like kids. I completely think that audits are a good thing. Once a quarter, do those things you would do to find a cheater. However, don't advertise it. You will probably catch the person off guard because they aren't aware about what you are doing. I also just assume that cheating is one way for her to deal with stress. Cheaters will make things up to justify their actions. They will build a case inside their heads and blame you for being the terrible person. You will read a lot about sexless marriages, and it's mostly just the top excuse. She is just refusing to have it -trust me. She will always move the goalposts when it comes to expectations.

These are just things I found to be helpful. If anyone has anything to add that would be great.

It sounds like she cheated to begin with and you took her back. Cheating is cheating, it's not black or grey.

People on this board that think it's normal, ok etc. are living dysfunctional lives. The cheater is the only person to blame no matter what the other spouse did or didn't do. Everyone is responsible for their behavior.

I would definitely spot check someone that cheated on me. When you are good enough to give them 1 more chance they shouldn't blow it, and make changes to be a positive role model for their spouse and kids.

You have a very black and white view of extramarital affairs but would choose to still stay in the marriage? Why not "Marriage is monogamy, it's not black or grey." So no monogamy, no marriage. Or is it that you cannot come to terms that your lifestyle would change?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every guy I know whose wife was cheating claims their ex was in love with their partner.

Every woman I know whose husband was cheating claims their ex did it for the ass.

Literally without exception. Forty years of anecdotal evidence and I've never heard about a woman doing it for the dick or a guy doing it for his heart.

Maybe that's why women generally forgive their cheating husbands and why men almost never forgive their cheating wives.

Excellent point, Watson. Excellent point.

No. Women "forgive" their husbands because by and large women will suffer significant negative financial impact from divorce, and by association their kids. Women have also been conditioned since childhood to compromise, to believe that marriage is hard and to sacrifice themselves in favor of others, especially to sacrifice themselves in favor of their own kids.

I guarantee you if women were equally empowered to men economically and socially, female divorce rates after infidelity would be the same as male.

And, BTW, women by and large don't forgive infidelity. They may accept that it happened and choose to stay anyway. That is far different than forgiveness. Men are never really forgiven after infidelity. Our expectations of you are simply lowered.

I know a few that only stayed because of kids, finances, retirement or even health insurance. They don't care about their spouse because it was truly over once they cheated. Once someone cheats they've already ended the marriage. Surprised how any don't understand that.


I

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any pointers to help men that think that their wives are cheating? Years ago, my wife had an emotional affair and I made some mistakes because I was so hurt. I haven't really healed from it because, in part, I think that she's still lying about parts of it. I was too quick to show her evidence I found whenever I found something new. This allowed her to make additional ways to contact the guy. If I just had let the communications to continue longer without exposing her, I could have had a better picture about what she was saying about me. I wasn't patience enough and it just became a game.

We are still together, but we have a lot more at stake -like kids. I completely think that audits are a good thing. Once a quarter, do those things you would do to find a cheater. However, don't advertise it. You will probably catch the person off guard because they aren't aware about what you are doing. I also just assume that cheating is one way for her to deal with stress. Cheaters will make things up to justify their actions. They will build a case inside their heads and blame you for being the terrible person. You will read a lot about sexless marriages, and it's mostly just the top excuse. She is just refusing to have it -trust me. She will always move the goalposts when it comes to expectations.

These are just things I found to be helpful. If anyone has anything to add that would be great.

It sounds like she cheated to begin with and you took her back. Cheating is cheating, it's not black or grey.

People on this board that think it's normal, ok etc. are living dysfunctional lives. The cheater is the only person to blame no matter what the other spouse did or didn't do. Everyone is responsible for their behavior.

I would definitely spot check someone that cheated on me. When you are good enough to give them 1 more chance they shouldn't blow it, and make changes to be a positive role model for their spouse and kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every guy I know whose wife was cheating claims their ex was in love with their partner.

Every woman I know whose husband was cheating claims their ex did it for the ass.

Literally without exception. Forty years of anecdotal evidence and I've never heard about a woman doing it for the dick or a guy doing it for his heart.

Maybe that's why women generally forgive their cheating husbands and why men almost never forgive their cheating wives.

Excellent point, Watson. Excellent point.

No. Women "forgive" their husbands because by and large women will suffer significant negative financial impact from divorce, and by association their kids. Women have also been conditioned since childhood to compromise, to believe that marriage is hard and to sacrifice themselves in favor of others, especially to sacrifice themselves in favor of their own kids.

I guarantee you if women were equally empowered to men economically and socially, female divorce rates after infidelity would be the same as male.

And, BTW, women by and large don't forgive infidelity. They may accept that it happened and choose to stay anyway. That is far different than forgiveness. Men are never really forgiven after infidelity. Our expectations of you are simply lowered.

So men get at least a couple strikes. Most women only get one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every guy I know whose wife was cheating claims their ex was in love with their partner.

Every woman I know whose husband was cheating claims their ex did it for the ass.

Literally without exception. Forty years of anecdotal evidence and I've never heard about a woman doing it for the dick or a guy doing it for his heart.

Maybe that's why women generally forgive their cheating husbands and why men almost never forgive their cheating wives.

Excellent point, Watson. Excellent point.

No. Women "forgive" their husbands because by and large women will suffer significant negative financial impact from divorce, and by association their kids. Women have also been conditioned since childhood to compromise, to believe that marriage is hard and to sacrifice themselves in favor of others, especially to sacrifice themselves in favor of their own kids.

I guarantee you if women were equally empowered to men economically and socially, female divorce rates after infidelity would be the same as male.

And, BTW, women by and large don't forgive infidelity. They may accept that it happened and choose to stay anyway. That is far different than forgiveness. Men are never really forgiven after infidelity. Our expectations of you are simply lowered.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a cliche because I came home early from work and my wife, who was working from home that day per her usual schedule, was riding what turned out to be her AP in our bed. That’s how I caught her. Maybe on some level I had been concerned and my coming back early was to test some doubts. It was horrifying and the image will never leave my mind.

Did you join in?

I’m a cliche because I came home early from work and my wife, who was working from home that day per her usual schedule, was riding what turned out to be her AP in our bed. That’s how I caught her. Maybe on some level I had been concerned and my coming back early was to test some doubts. It was horrifying and the image will never leave my mind.

Anonymous wrote:Every guy I know whose wife was cheating claims their ex was in love with their partner.

Every woman I know whose husband was cheating claims their ex did it for the ass.

Literally without exception. Forty years of anecdotal evidence and I've never heard about a woman doing it for the dick or a guy doing it for his heart.

Maybe that's why women generally forgive their cheating husbands and why men almost never forgive their cheating wives.

Excellent point, Watson. Excellent point.

Every guy I know whose wife was cheating claims their ex was in love with their partner.

Every woman I know whose husband was cheating claims their ex did it for the ass.

Literally without exception. Forty years of anecdotal evidence and I've never heard about a woman doing it for the dick or a guy doing it for his heart.

Maybe that's why women generally forgive their cheating husbands and why men almost never forgive their cheating wives.

I’m in a very similar boat with my DH. A lot of circumstantial evidence but no smoking gun about a ONS. It’s hell and with children just not justifiable to break up a family. Like if my parents split over what I know, I’d be furious!
Maybe I’m a Catholic martyr but I just don’t think an emotional affair is grounds for divorce if children are involved. I’ve read a lot on this and even chump lady defines cheating as sex.
I too have difficulty with the temptation of checking up. I keep a daily discipline to refrain because ultimately it makes me very unhappy and sucks energy away from more positive uses of my time.

Anonymous wrote:For men with cheating wives, were you matched in terms of libido? Did your wife approach you about the quality of your intimate relations or frequency.

BTW: Most cheaters use apps like kik, whatsapp, or hangouts to keep in contact with their AP. They delete them when not in use. Check the archive on hangouts to see if there are past conversations or blocked numbers. The blocked numbers list is a dead giveaway. You can unblock it for messages to come through when you are actively cheating and then re-block.

They also have alternative Facebook pages that will tie them to dating apps. These Facebook pages can be tied to their other interest (gaming, or other hobbies) and then used for the dating apps when actively cheating. You can change the interface when in the dating app. Does your spouse hate Facebook but still has the app on their phone?

Also, for cheating men . . . I am a woman. Does your spouse keep a ready travel bag for work travel? What is in that ready bag, have you checked lately? I was amazed that a married ONS, who I later found out was married, had a tube of massage oil and lube that was not full with him. I think he bought the condoms when he arrived since they were too small.

Amazingly, this is one if the many ways I caught my now Ex - he'd packed a bag for a business trip and left it in the trunk of the car until it was time for me to take him to the airport. I searched the bag and found he packed condoms. I thought about putting a little note wrapped around the condom box telling him our marriage was over and not to bother coming back to the house after the business trip. But, I was too kind and wanted to do it face to face and didn't want to adversely affect his job. I gave him that courtesy and kindness, and he repayed it by continuing to lie and gaslight me.

During this time I checked extensively on him - cell phone bill call and text numbers, credit card statements, car mileage, keylogger on my computer (which I allowed him to use), etc. Although it was unpleasant to see reality, I am glad I did all that. It gave me the leverage to shame him into leaving our home and it got me a better child support and custody arrangement. It also enabled me to leave the relationship without an ounce of regret. The last was invaluable.

Other people will tell you, if you have to do all that, then the trust is gone and the relationship is already over, which is true, but those people don't recognize the abusive nature of repeated infidelity (as opposed to a one night stand). It is traumatizing and the emotional manipulation is very hard to see clearly without proof to the contrary.

OP, there is no trust in your marriage. Move on. While women do cheat, many of them do it because of emotional needs or physical needs not being met. And while men do cheat, many of them do it because of an innate desire for strange. Each motivation for a person in a situation with infidelity is going to be different. If you truly want to work on your marriage, you should focus on getting to the core of why there was cheating. But continuing to build mistrust by looking to "catch" her is just as thwarted as any cheating behavior. You should be able to say to your spouse - I don't trust you. This is why. Can we build on it? Can we go from here and do some work? If you can't do that, you don't have a place of trust to even hope for. It has to be an environment where you are willing, and so is she. It will require vulnerability, exposure (maybe at a different pace than what either of you are looking for), reinforcement with new learned behaviors (counseling helps here), diffusion of compounded issues (counseling helps here too), and a bunch of other things.

Posting for tips on evidence gathering to ultimately affirm your insecurities is not the path to happiness. It's the path to self-validation. And at its core, validation on this issue is one that reinforces a self-worth much lower than it should be.

You sound paralyzed by this. Move on. In one way (with your spouse) or another (without). Move on.

Anonymous wrote:Just leave, honestly. Some people can get over it and some can’t. Nothing wrong with you if you can’t. I understand you, I truly do. If you don’t have trust there’s no point. For me, the thought of them together was too much and would never leave my head. Plus I refuse to be disrespected in such a manner. She said she wanted to work it out, I couldn’t and wouldn’t. Once my trust with you is broken it’s very hard if not impossible to gain it back. I know this. I split. It was hard and she begged for another chance but there was no way in hell I would put up with the ultimate betrayal. No f*cking way.

My general sense is that many cheating spouses don’t think the innocent spouse had the guts to follow through with leaving. Most men will never get over a cheating wife.

I had certain suspicions (leaving the room to check frequent texts, was one) and ultimately my ability to play into my wife's guilty feelings, “tells” and evangelical religious background got her to confess. She tried every trick in the book prior to confessing—indignation, laughter, and look me in the eye lying.