Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 16:38     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Most people on DCUM would say I'm living beyond my means. I make $300k/year but bought a close-in house with a big yard that was too expensive ($4200/month). I max out retirement, but don't save a penny more than $18k/year. My 529s are low (my parents didn't pay for my college and I don't see the need; if the kids are smart enough they can get a scholarship, if not they can do ROTC). We have a house cleaner and a lawn guy and a dog walker. I pay for my parents' housing (including mortgage, utilities, upkeep) so that they can be the ones to watch our kids instead of sending them to a daycare. It's worth it to me -- I don't feel like taking my equity and downsizing to a smaller house with a longer commute. Everyone has different priorities.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 16:07     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
I am middle class. However, I am extremely privy to my dh’s boss’s finances. Work very closely with the family. Their business makes 1.6 million a year. I know it’s not a huge amount but there is very little staff. Also no business debt. They were rich beforehand, such as they outright own the business’s land and several other properties.

**They spend RIGHT up to their earnings. It drives me nuts, because I’m addition to living exactly up to their means, they fail to plan ahead on small things that would make staff happy. Or fail to plan ahead for things that would bring more revenue!! Or overspend on USELESS things because they are used to a certain standard. Things like spending thousands on re-doing landscaping, when it was perfectly fine/justneeds maintenance.**

So I feel like this counts. They often buy like a new horse trailer or something. Because the other brand new one wasn’t what they wanted after all. So stupid.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 16:02     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
I know lots and lots of people who spend more than they earn. To many people the appearance of success is more important than actual success. Some people of Asian cultures 'save face' by putting on the Ritz (even if the only Ritz they can afford is a cracker).
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:59     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?


Same, but i have no idea what a YSL bag is as we make from 400-550 depending on the year. If they dont sell it at the Leesburg outlets, i dont buy it. I actually really likr the bags at Target.

Travel is my jam. Zero problems spending 25k/yr on travel, but as for the rest designer nothing, japanese cars we run to the ground


Spending a lot on travel seems like a common theme here. People seem to think it’s so much better than buying designer things. How is blowing 20k on travel better than buying a couple of $3000 bags every year? Both expenses sound frivolous to me.


It's subjective. I prefer travel, you prefer bags. That's okay.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:59     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?


Same, but i have no idea what a YSL bag is as we make from 400-550 depending on the year. If they dont sell it at the Leesburg outlets, i dont buy it. I actually really likr the bags at Target.

Travel is my jam. Zero problems spending 25k/yr on travel, but as for the rest designer nothing, japanese cars we run to the ground


Spending a lot on travel seems like a common theme here. People seem to think it’s so much better than buying designer things. How is blowing 20k on travel better than buying a couple of $3000 bags every year? Both expenses sound frivolous to me.


It's the whole "experiences > stuff" thing. Possibly true, but of course just as much of an indulgence.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:57     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?


Same, but i have no idea what a YSL bag is as we make from 400-550 depending on the year. If they dont sell it at the Leesburg outlets, i dont buy it. I actually really likr the bags at Target.

Travel is my jam. Zero problems spending 25k/yr on travel, but as for the rest designer nothing, japanese cars we run to the ground


Spending a lot on travel seems like a common theme here. People seem to think it’s so much better than buying designer things. How is blowing 20k on travel better than buying a couple of $3000 bags every year? Both expenses sound frivolous to me.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:32     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?


Same, but i have no idea what a YSL bag is as we make from 400-550 depending on the year. If they dont sell it at the Leesburg outlets, i dont buy it. I actually really likr the bags at Target.

Travel is my jam. Zero problems spending 25k/yr on travel, but as for the rest designer nothing, japanese cars we run to the ground
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:23     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
We don’t live beyond our means but more close to at our means. $340K. HHI, we max our retirement savings and have substantial retirement savings and home equity. We have no non- mortgage debt. That said we have a very nice home in NWDC with a big mortgage and we spend a lot on our kids and family activities we enjoy. Subscription tickets, sleep away camps for the kids, multiple sports, some nice travel. We don’t drive fancy cars but they are good cars well maintained.

We should have more in savings but I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about it. Two senior fed jobs, pretty stable incomes. We do have substantial life and disability insurance.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:06     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?


You should buy the bag!
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:06     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.

20-50 k for a Birkin bag on a 400k salary? Good recipe for financial disaster.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 15:02     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Sure. I’ve done the math on my BIL’s life and there is no way they are in the black. I know for a fact that they don’t save anything. The only thing that makes their lives possible is his wife’s family money.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 14:54     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.


We make 450k and I can assure you I can't afford a Birkin bag. I have been thinking about a YSL bag for 3yrs but haven't had the courage to pull the trigger. I can do it at the cost of retirement, savings, 529 etc but then what's the point?
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 14:48     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My BIL, 45 years old, single (live-in GF with her own (relatively low-paying, but more than enough to live on as a single person job with benefits), no kids, no intention of having kids, makes $350-$400K/yr.. He has told all of us (family) that he lives paycheck to paycheck, and even takes on OT work (he's a radiologist).

Why?

He bought a 2.5 million dollar home on the water on LI. It should be easily affordable on his income, but he knew nothing about real estate and is not the most common sensical person in the world. The house is 30+ years old, so of course has maintenance involved + a pool to be maintained year-round + landscaping to be maintained. He was completely shocked by the home upkeep costs. On top of that, he is embroiled in a battle with the city over the placement of a pool house on his property, an issue the previous owners even disclosed to him, but got him to agree to a tiny amount of money in escrow to wash their hands of it. He has paid a legion of realtors, consultants, and lawyers to deal with this, some of the same ones who gave him poor advice to begin with.

Does his house still look gorgeous? Yes. Did he just buy a 10K+ custom-made bed his GF really wanted? Yes. Does he still eat at expensive restaurants? Yes. Does he have any health insurance? No. Could he maintain any part of this lifestyle if he stopped working tomorrow? No.

So, he is constantly stressed about money, but he makes more than enough to cover the day-to-day. He keeps hoping the situation will improve, but every time it looks like one crisis is over, another seems to pop up.

Now, if he did lose his job, he does have a $2.5 million property he could borrow against, or sell. He would probably find a new job quickly. I agree with the poster who says most UMC/UC people have more ways to cushion a true crisis.


He's a doctor without health insurance? Find that hard to believe. They more than anyone else knows the risks of being uninsured and how costly care is. And plus why wouldn't his hospital/private practice group provide coverage like all other employers??


My BIL is also an anesthesiologist. He has some major health issues and they are contracts not employees. So private insurance would be very expensive. They have insurance through my sister's job.


Why would private insurance have to cost more than an ACA plan? I mean, he wouldn't get subsidies, but it looks like my BIL would pay $400/mo for bronze, $700/mo for Platinum, and could also get a catastrophic plan for less than $200/mo..
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 14:48     Subject: Re:Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?



I agree with this. It's not very common that people making $300k+ are going into the red every month, but it's very surprising how many people at that level are only saving 10% or less of their income. If you make $100k, when you imagine making $300k you picture a nicer lifestyle and a very good nest egg in the bank to give you financial security and possibly enable early retirement. Then you see people making $300k and what they actually have is a similar 401k balance to the $100k person, a nicer car and a house 2 neighborhoods over with an additional bedroom. They're not on the verge of bankruptcy but they're also not a single step closer to financial independence or actual wealth, and that's the part that feels wasteful.


+1. You also see people with golden handcuffs--they make a great living, but they set their spending at that level. Not only are they not saving more, they are locked into mortgages and car payments and private school tuition that make downsizing really daunting. So, not beyond their means, but right up against them.

Also, I grew up in the construction industry, and there were a lot of developers who were making big money who were absolutely one bad deal away from bankruptcy. One of the people my family worked with had a huge custom house, expensive cars, horses, travel, etc....when he died (suddenly) it turned out that his estate was nearly worthless because of the amount of debt he was carrying. Not uncommon at all in that field.

And we have one good friend from really old money who lives off of a trust fund (big enough to pay for multiple homes, lots of travel, etc.)...her brother, with the same amount in trust, ended up flat broke because of his spending. So it's not just "new money" at risk of losing it all.


What you've described sounds like a lot of people on DCUM!
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2018 14:47     Subject: Upper and UMC Ppl: Do you Actually Know Anyone Living Beyond their Means?
Anonymous wrote:A non-equity partner at my spouse's law firm drives a Tesla X, has his tailor come to the office to measure new bespoke suits twice a year, and whose stay-at-home wife has more than one Berkin bag. Their two kids go to the same independent school as ours. I would guess they spend more than 3x what our family does at less than 1/3 the income. All that conspicuous consumption is about looking like he's a full partner and being taken seriously at the firm and with clients. I doubt that he feels like he has a choice about it.


Is your spouse not in biglaw? Bc at a biglaw firm, a non equity partner (for the firms that have 2 tiers of partner) make 300-400k/yr. Do you honestly think at 400k/yr, he can't drive a Tesla, buy a few $5000 suits per year, and buy the wife a few designer bags? Come on. Not everyone is "struggling" on 400k as DCUM would have you believe.