Anonymous wrote:

You don’t know sh*t about my life or what I overcame to be happy, healthy, and doing well. It is in spite of my family, not because of them. They don’t have the right to rewrite history or to avoid the natural consequences of their decisions.

PP here. I’ll provide some context:

- early childhood was marked by physical fights between my parents. Blood, broken bones, and police visits were not uncommon. I cowered in fear in a corner, praying it would end. While nobody hit me (beyond spanking), they either didn’t pay any attention to me, or they were neglectful and played mind games with me as a young child. There were also a lot of drugs in the house and druggie friends coming over.
- When that marriage finally ended, after the related drama and trauma, my mother brought home guy after guy. I was in middle school and hid in my room while she “entertained” them. I lost friends because they were no longer allowed to associate with me.
- My mom finally remarried and things got a little more stable. But my mother continued to be, at best, emotionally detached. Maybe neglectful and manipulative. I remember one fight we had where she accused me of sleeping around in high school because a boyfriend bought me flowers. She was screaming at me, asking me what I did to earn the flowers. (I was still a virgin).
- I moved away for college on scholarships. I took out loans for grad school. I was determined to get an education and move away. I met a great guy, got married, and started a family. But I still have a lot of stuff to work through from my childhood.
- Because my mom has a stable marriage now and is getting older, she suddenly shows an interest in my kids, but still not me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You reap what you sow. The amount of love, care, time people put in their parenting, they will receive the same back.

This. My early childhood was pretty awful and later, my parents were indifferent and emotionally unsupportive. For some reason, they have mellowed as grandparents and expect a meaningful relationship with my kids. If it’s convenient for me, fine. But I’m not going out of my way to see my parents now.

Shame on you. This is exactly the attitude the OP is talking about. You are ostensibly happy, healthy and doing well as an adult. That's because your parents raised you.

You don’t know sh*t about my life or what I overcame to be happy, healthy, and doing well. It is in spite of my family, not because of them. They don’t have the right to rewrite history or to avoid the natural consequences of their decisions.

Holding people dear
- by force
You don't want to be THAT parent
You don't want to be someone who uses emotional manipulation (guilt) to make things happen
That's not love, or anyone's best self.

To the PP from Europe, there's no monolithic European attitude towards family ties...I'm sure there is a lot of diversity within the different European cultures eg. Northern vs. Southern.

I have plenty of money for old age care but nothing can take the place of visits or a few loving words. Anyone who is unwilling to offer these to the parents who raised them deserves a special place in hell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Her parents are lucky she has any kind of relationship with them."

THIS is the attitude I'm talking about. I wish it on those of you who act this way when your children are grown. You think your parenting skills will prevent it. They will not. Your treatment of your parents will likely be observed and returned to you a thousandfold.

+1000

Totally agree. I watched my parents when my grandparents were elderly and going downhill, and at the time, thought that their efforts to assist were overboard. I saw a strain on their marriage to care for their parents, and the strain on their finances. But now that I myself am getting older, I understand their perspective so much better, and I'm grateful for the role models my parents turned out to be for me when it comes to respecting and caring for prior generations.

Well, I made the opposite conclusion. I view that as selfish decisions made by grandparents that put strain on my parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Her parents are lucky she has any kind of relationship with them."

THIS is the attitude I'm talking about. I wish it on those of you who act this way when your children are grown. You think your parenting skills will prevent it. They will not. Your treatment of your parents will likely be observed and returned to you a thousandfold.

+1000

Totally agree. I watched my parents when my grandparents were elderly and going downhill, and at the time, thought that their efforts to assist were overboard. I saw a strain on their marriage to care for their parents, and the strain on their finances. But now that I myself am getting older, I understand their perspective so much better, and I'm grateful for the role models my parents turned out to be for me when it comes to respecting and caring for prior generations.

Anonymous wrote:"Her parents are lucky she has any kind of relationship with them."

THIS is the attitude I'm talking about. I wish it on those of you who act this way when your children are grown. You think your parenting skills will prevent it. They will not. Your treatment of your parents will likely be observed and returned to you a thousandfold.

+1000

"Her parents are lucky she has any kind of relationship with them."

THIS is the attitude I'm talking about. I wish it on those of you who act this way when your children are grown. You think your parenting skills will prevent it. They will not. Your treatment of your parents will likely be observed and returned to you a thousandfold.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You reap what you sow. The amount of love, care, time people put in their parenting, they will receive the same back.

This. My early childhood was pretty awful and later, my parents were indifferent and emotionally unsupportive. For some reason, they have mellowed as grandparents and expect a meaningful relationship with my kids. If it’s convenient for me, fine. But I’m not going out of my way to see my parents now.

Shame on you. This is exactly the attitude the OP is talking about. You are ostensibly happy, healthy and doing well as an adult. That's because your parents raised you.

NP here. The PP has given no indication of whether she's happy, healthy and doing well as an adult. Even if she is 'ostensibly' happy, healthy and doing well, you have no idea what her internal struggles are. Just because the PP survived her childhood doesn't mean that she owes her parents anything. Her parents are lucky she has any kind of relationship with them.

The "people get what they deserve" attitude on this threat is such a classic, immature millennial perspective. It's not that simple. Not even close.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You reap what you sow. The amount of love, care, time people put in their parenting, they will receive the same back.

This. My early childhood was pretty awful and later, my parents were indifferent and emotionally unsupportive. For some reason, they have mellowed as grandparents and expect a meaningful relationship with my kids. If it’s convenient for me, fine. But I’m not going out of my way to see my parents now.

Shame on you. This is exactly the attitude the OP is talking about. You are ostensibly happy, healthy and doing well as an adult. That's because your parents raised you.

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked at the number of young couples who seem to feel that any expected visits to or from family are unreasonable or who think its too much to expect them to help out/sacrifice for parents who've raised them. Is it just this forum or is there a total sense that parent's are there to serve children but never vice versa? I'm not talking about major financial burdens or letting parents move in with you, but occasional visits that last longer than the time it takes to eat and run, collect Xmas gifts or drop the kids off for free care?

Your perspective is off. If parents have successfully built a loving relationship with their children, the other stuff (visits, helping, sacrificing), follows. But when parents have not successfully built that relationship with their children, usually due to their own narcissism and selfishness, the children are sick of it by the time they are adults. Why would they want to spend any more time in such a one sided relationship?

Of course the parents see it as them not being given what they are "owed". They are selfish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am from Europe and I find these attitudes towards parents, ILS here very unusual. Family is family, when I married my DH's family became my family, they are white bread American type of family, but I realized that I didn't become their family. I think it goes both ways. My DH's grandmother asked my SIL and me, DH was working overseas at the time, which of their nice wooden furniture(small pieces like stools and such) would we like to get as they were getting older. SIL answered and I said, I don't know, I will ask DH, but I think he really likes the small stool. I was given a lecture by SIL(my age) about it not being my place. When MIL died I was the only one that went out of my way to cook for FIL and help, and when I asked, one day! if he likes this kind of stew that I prepared that day, that he will tell me after he eats it. This was after months of cooking for him. I am the one who tells DH to let go of annoying things his family does. So, I don't know, it seems to me it goes both ways. In Europe, in my family, we know traditions and we don't make a fuss about it. Parents do for us, and we do for them. I have no idea if this this just my country, probably there are many differences in every country in the world, in every family in the world. And my ILS might be just as unusual in the US compared to many other US families.

Maybe that's why Europeans are marrying less and having fewer children.

I'm not from Europe but I agree with you. There seems to have been a major change in attitudes somewhere in the last 25 years, resulting in an attitude, manifested here, that family is an outmoded concept.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really annoys me when parents talk about how they sacrificed to raise kids and then kids owe them something. Nope. You had kids because you wanted them. You had them for your own enjoyment and shouldn't have been such a martyr.

Such a twisted logic. By having children I did them a favor which is the biggest favor they could have gotten - being born. there is absolutely a reason to be grateful to be born. I certainly was grateful to my parents for giving me a chance at life.

No wonder your children don't want to be around you. You had children because YOU wanted children. I think some adults if told "you have a choice: You can be born and be chained to your manipulative, entitled parents for your ENTIRE life or you can not be born," they'd choose to not be born. You don't get to say that you "gave" them life and then go on to demand how they life it. Life without freedom is servitude. Did you have children to make them your servants?

The real gift parents can give their children is freedom -- and that means freedom from emotional blackmail and manipulation. Usually, when parents give their children that gift, the adult children do actually then want to have a relationship with their parents in adulthood.

my children are in early elementary and can't get enough of me so not relevant.

my own mom often asksed me jokingly what am I going to give her to pay her for off for giving birth to me. I loved my mom and we were very very close. but I am not a native born American, thank lord, and don't have this completely twisted conception of family.

to be born is a huge gift. if to weren't most people would kill themselves. but in fact a vast majority cling to their lives even in the worst circumstances.