Okay. Again, on Table 1 of the figure, it shows black students have a ~65% acceptance rate, whereas Asian and white students have a ~36% acceptance rate and overall everyone has a ~39% acceptance rate.

The source for 2016 shows that the gap is far less now than it was in 2004. It stands logically that even if one were to perform a regression of black and non-black applicants with the same scores, you would not see a 106 to 1 difference.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but those are 10 year or older sources. The current source- JBHE- shows (accidentally put 2015 above- 2016 universities here: https://www.jbhe.com/2017/01/black-first-year-students-at-the-nations-leading-research-universities-2016/)

UVA- 34.6% of Black students admitted vs. 29.9% of all students admitted

That is not a 106:1 ratio.

Apparently the concept of multiple regression is beyond this poster.

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but those are 10 year or older sources. The current source- JBHE- shows (accidentally put 2015 above- 2016 universities here: https://www.jbhe.com/2017/01/black-first-year-students-at-the-nations-leading-research-universities-2016/)

UVA- 34.6% of Black students admitted vs. 29.9% of all students admitted

That is not a 106:1 ratio.

That's not comparing students with similar qualifications. The 106 ratio is comparing students with the same qualifications. The black students will almost certainly have GPAs and SATs significantly lower than the average admit into UVA.

Anonymous wrote:The big elephant in the room: how in the world is this fair?

Why should someone who can play sports or has a parent attending the college get up to a 15x boost to acceptance rate (PRINCETON) AND lower GPA?

I see all the attacks on URM and this is very much the same phenomenon, if not more drastic.

Sickening that so many well-qualified students- who demonstrate ability in more meaningful ways- are getting cut out from great schools over these mediocre ones.

I don't mind athletes as they put time in - it is like a full time job. What i mind are the legacies and the $$$$ and connected. These kids are accepted not for what they have accomplished but what their parents, grandparents, etc have accomplished. How is this fair?

Yes, but those are 10 year or older sources. The current source- JBHE- shows (accidentally put 2015 above- 2016 universities here: https://www.jbhe.com/2017/01/black-first-year-students-at-the-nations-leading-research-universities-2016/)

UVA- 34.6% of Black students admitted vs. 29.9% of all students admitted

That is not a 106:1 ratio.

Anonymous wrote:Please cite your sources. Take a look at the Black acceptance rates against the overall rates, and they're not nearly that much higher (in many cases, they are lower).

https://www.jbhe.com/2016/01/black-first-year-students-at-leading-research-universities/

https://www.jbhe.com/2017/01/black-first-year-students-at-the-nations-leading-liberal-arts-colleges-2016/

This is examining it at UVA, W&M and NC St.: http://www.ceousa.org/attachments/article/665/VAS%20Report.pdf

From the report: "The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant."

Blacks at UVA had an average SAT score of 1026 compared to 1350 for the entire student body.


Here's one for elite universities: https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/webOpportunity%20Cost%20of%20Admission%20Preferences%20Espenshade%20Chung%20June%202005.pdf

"African-American applicants receive the equivalent of 230 extra SAT points (on a 1600-point scale), and being Hispanic is worth an additional 185 SAT points. Other things equal, re- cruited athletes gain an admission bonus worth 200 points, while the pref- erence for legacy candidates is worth 160 points. Asian-American applicants face a loss equivalent to 50 SAT points."

I will apologize for saying the URM bump is much greater; it's somewhat greater but the legacy bump is larger than I remembered.

Please cite your sources. Take a look at the Black acceptance rates against the overall rates, and they're not nearly that much higher (in many cases, they are lower).

https://www.jbhe.com/2016/01/black-first-year-students-at-leading-research-universities/

https://www.jbhe.com/2017/01/black-first-year-students-at-the-nations-leading-liberal-arts-colleges-2016/

Anonymous wrote:The big elephant in the room: how in the world is this fair?

Why should someone who can play sports or has a parent attending the college get up to a 15x boost to acceptance rate (PRINCETON) AND lower GPA?

I see all the attacks on URM and this is very much the same phenomenon, if not more drastic.

Sickening that so many well-qualified students- who demonstrate ability in more meaningful ways- are getting cut out from great schools over these mediocre ones.

They've looked into this at several competitive universities and the URM bump is usually MUCH greater than the legacy bump. It's not even close. Many of the athletes are URM as well. I think all preferences (even legacy) should go.

The big elephant in the room: how in the world is this fair?

Why should someone who can play sports or has a parent attending the college get up to a 15x boost to acceptance rate (PRINCETON) AND lower GPA?

I see all the attacks on URM and this is very much the same phenomenon, if not more drastic.

Sickening that so many well-qualified students- who demonstrate ability in more meaningful ways- are getting cut out from great schools over these mediocre ones.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious about the cutoff SAT scores for athletes. I know some have been told they had a score cut off, even though no one speaks it.

has ami

There is something called the Academic Index for D1 athletes. This score is calculated from SAT scores, GPA etc. Each school has a minimum number that they require to accept a student. Obviously, HYP is going to have a much higher AI than other D1 schools. Ask the coach about their school's number.

My DS went to one of the schools mentioned in this list. He was a D3 athlete at a highly ranked LAC. Once he was an upperclassman, he would host potential recruits for an overnight at his school. When acceptances would come around, he would find out that some kids did not make the academic cut even though the coach wanted the athlete.

I have an athlete recruit. The helmet sports - the high scores are the benchers i.e. Recruited but sit on bench to raise the average AI so they can recruit a more talented player but with lower scores.

The AI can be manipulated with the GPA - they should take out the GPA from the calculations

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious about the cutoff SAT scores for athletes. I know some have been told they had a score cut off, even though no one speaks it.

has ami

There is something called the Academic Index for D1 athletes. This score is calculated from SAT scores, GPA etc. Each school has a minimum number that they require to accept a student. Obviously, HYP is going to have a much higher AI than other D1 schools. Ask the coach about their school's number.

My DS went to one of the schools mentioned in this list. He was a D3 athlete at a highly ranked LAC. Once he was an upperclassman, he would host potential recruits for an overnight at his school. When acceptances would come around, he would find out that some kids did not make the academic cut even though the coach wanted the athlete.

I have an athlete recruit. The helmet sports - the high scores are the benchers i.e. Recruited but sit on bench to raise the average AI so they can recruit a more talented player but with lower scores.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

TJ had 145 this year.

Much easier to qualify in Virginia than it is in California. Ship a few million Asian grinds into VA and see how many TJ has then.

Not true. National Merit Semi Finalist PSAT score cutoff is identical in VA and CA at 222.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

TJ had 145 this year.

Much easier to qualify in Virginia than it is in California. Ship a few million Asian grinds into VA and see how many TJ has then.

1. CA and VA had the cutoff: 222. https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/
2. You're an idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

TJ had 145 this year.

Much easier to qualify in Virginia than it is in California. Ship a few million Asian grinds into VA and see how many TJ has then.

Anonymous wrote:Curious about the cutoff SAT scores for athletes. I know some have been told they had a score cut off, even though no one speaks it.

has ami

There is something called the Academic Index for D1 athletes. This score is calculated from SAT scores, GPA etc. Each school has a minimum number that they require to accept a student. Obviously, HYP is going to have a much higher AI than other D1 schools. Ask the coach about their school's number.

My DS went to one of the schools mentioned in this list. He was a D3 athlete at a highly ranked LAC. Once he was an upperclassman, he would host potential recruits for an overnight at his school. When acceptances would come around, he would find out that some kids did not make the academic cut even though the coach wanted the athlete.