Anonymous wrote:OP, you said this kid is popular, which to me indicates he's potentially an alpha who has never been told no and doesn't really know how to handle that, so he is acting out without fear of consequences. Think Daniel on Bachelor in Paradise who seems to have made it into his 30s acting like this - what a douche.

I'd think that if your daughter firmly told him to get lost (as you say she did) and then actually ignores him he will stop. But my fear is that his friends might then be jerks to her, or some popular girls in his circle (who might like him) would be mean to your daughter in retaliation to her/solidarity with him. Keep an eye out for this, and have her trust in her friends for comfort and back up. Try your best to stay in the loop and check in with her. And go full on momma bear if something goes awry.

I'm a football coach and guidance counselor, so I have a lot of experience working with all sides on what they can do better in working with each other.

Your guidance counselor should work with the young man to help him understand he can back off with respect, that there are plenty of fishes in the sea. The counselor can also help him understand that it's your daughter's loss if she can't figure out why she's making a mistake. I know you might not think it's a mistake, but we got to work from the young man's perspective.

I do want your daughter to think about what she's really communicating to the young man. Is she cutting down his manhood in her rejection, rather than owning her actions?

I had a great, great player who went on to play FCS-level ball in college at a ranked program. He ended up marrying a really fantastic woman coed he met there.

But, you know, he was a talented but coltish high school sophomore back in the day. Now, even then he was a heck of a player, and left it all on the field. But at that age he was a sensitive kid.

So anyway, he developed a crush on a hot senior cheerleader. Now we always use kids' circumstances as motivational fuel. If a kid thinks getting a TD and getting to the 'ship is going to get him some action, then he's gonna play better.

But this chick was just too hot, and had been around the block. She wasn't dating one of my underclassmen no matter how much potential he has. But she was pretty cruel in how she blew him off. He kept trying to prove himself to her, much like this young man is doing with your DD. Since even as a sophomore he was a critical player for us, we took a lot of time helping him work through this and get over her. To this day I think we would have pulled out the semifinal if we had had just a little more time to game plan. But, you know, that's what you get when you choose to coach at this level.

Anyway Mom, show some compassion for this young man. Who knows--you might even find yourself watching him on your TV on Sundays in a few years .

Anonymous wrote:Have her remind him stalking is also an offense covering juveniles with appropriate juvenile court penal sanctions

Please have her say it exactly like this. And report back.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a mom of a 16 year old boy, and I'm pretty pissed off that this is going on. Who the hell does this kid think he is REPREATEDLY saying "I think you're friggin' hot. Why won't you talk to me?" As if he has a right to?!? As if she owes him a conversation because he's turned on by her?!? And then sending friends over. And then staring at her. That's intimidation. There's nothing cute or okay about that.

If I knew my son was any part of this type of nonsense, he would not hear the end of it.

Give your daughter a day to handle this on her own by blocking him on Snapchat. But that's it. Any other attempts after that by this kid or his friends to contact her or make her feel uncomfortable need to be addressed seriously by school administrators. This is harassment. No student should be made to feel uncomfortable.

+1000

She needs to block him on Snapchat and then go tell the school counselor about it and ask that the counselor talk with him. Maybe the kid is having trouble reading social cues. Or maybe he's just a so-called popular kid who thinks it's cool to harass and pressure girls who tell him "no".

Either way, it's not your daughter's job to figure out what's wrong with this kid. Her instincts are telling her to steer clear (cheers to her!) and you should help her do that.

Here are some benefits of having her inform a school counselor and asking them to take care of it:

(1) She'll learn that she doesn't ever need to put up with this type of BS on her own. It's not her burden to bear. Instead, there are resources around her to help shut this down, and she can use them. (To me, the adult equivalent is reporting workplace harassment to HR);

(2) There's no reason she should put herself in a position of confronting him face to face. Maybe it would go well. Or maybe he'd be so angry/embarassed that he escalates - either in the moment or later on. If the school is involved from the start, he'll know to stand down.

(3) He and his friends may be doing the same thing to other girls. The school absolutely needs to know what's going on in case this is true.

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, what I said. Having dad going and being visible to show that this young female is protected by a family group; and that this juvenile male will have to deal with a mature alpha male if he continues to engage.

Young females have been protected all through our evolutionary history. It's only modern culture that has relaxed this. There are many benefits to having a relaxed culture (young females get freedom and independence) but there are some downsides, too, because they are vulnerable to predators.

In general, boys who like to bully those who are more vulnerable see things in a pecking order. Most will defer to a bigger stronger mature male who is highly motivated to kick his sorry ass if he encroaches on his DD. It's in the DNA.

The notion that "alpha males" exist among humans is pretty discredited. Insecure right-wing types seem to love it, but it isn't a thing.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/07/07/the-myth-of-the-alpha-male/
http://nymag.com/betamale/2016/05/the-rise-of-the-alpha-beta-male.html

Anonymous wrote:

Well sometimes your own agency is enough and sometimes you need muscle. How terrible that this girl would know that her father would protect her. She is a child you know. SHe's in 9th grade so she's like 14 not 24!

It seems to be very important to that PP that the protecting be done specifically and exclusively by the father.

Have her remind him stalking is also an offense covering juveniles with appropriate juvenile court penal sanctions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is where a strong dad can create a boundary. Your DH is upset because this (protection) is his primal role and he can't fulfill it thanks to our crazy culture that thinks a young girl should handle this all herself (ie. your DD thinks this). Can dad pick her up from school one day; be visible?

Also, make sure she does not accidentally give the boy intermittent reinforcement (this often happens if one is trying to be polite or not rude, but it can backfire).

Also google "extinction burst" because the boy will go through this first before quitting, and she should be ready for this.

I really think you guys need to talk to the school admin (psychologist if they have one). This needs to be on record. I'm sure they've dealt with this before (maybe even from this particular kid) and they need to be on notice. It takes a village to protect a young girl/boy in this situation.

Your first paragraph is bizarre. What "primal" role would you have fathers play?

Uh, what I said. Having dad going and being visible to show that this young female is protected by a family group; and that this juvenile male will have to deal with a mature alpha male if he continues to engage.

Young females have been protected all through our evolutionary history. It's only modern culture that has relaxed this. There are many benefits to having a relaxed culture (young females get freedom and independence) but there are some downsides, too, because they are vulnerable to predators.

In general, boys who like to bully those who are more vulnerable see things in a pecking order. Most will defer to a bigger stronger mature male who is highly motivated to kick his sorry ass if he encroaches on his DD. It's in the DNA.

This is crazy talk, the consequence of which is that the boy is only reinforced in his worldview that men decide what is or isn't appropriate and the DD is ripped from a sense of using her own agency.

Well sometimes your own agency is enough and sometimes you need muscle. How terrible that this girl would know that her father would protect her. She is a child you know. SHe's in 9th grade so she's like 14 not 24!

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with those saying you need to step in ASAP. Your daughter will deal with this shit again and again. Is she going to have her daddy come intimidate her tinder dates so they don't try anything? No. The sad truth is that she will need the skillset to say "No" and mean it. BUT, that IS a skillset and I think you need to talk that through with her clearly.

1) She needs to document his messages. A day or two of 10 messages per day documented is plenty to show that he was overly involved in messaging her.

2) She needs to set him a Snapchat message (so that it is private and not embarrassing for him, which might cause him to escalate, but she does not need to talk to him privately in person), and save her message before sending (so that she can demonstrate that she clearly asked him to back off on X date), where she says clearly and explicitly. "I am not interested in you and you are making me uncomfortable. Do not approach me again online or in person."

3) She needs to block him on Snapchat.

4) She needs to tell SOMEONE at the school. This can be their shared teacher, a guidance counselor or the principal or VP, but she needs to tell someone in a position of authority that this person has crossed some lines and that she has clearly asked him not to contact her again. The point here is for her to learn that you get someone involved, because if he decides to escalate after she blocks him, it will be in the physical space of the school, and she will need backup. Explain that telling them means that she has the credibility to come to them if/when he does become a physical threat.

A big problem for a lot of women in these situations is failure to document, which leads to them being ignored or not believed. So she needs to document and put it on the record with someone in authority.

+1

Keep us posted OP. My DD is still in ES but I would have trouble knowing how to handle this. Glad to read the advice on this thread.

It is not that hard. Block him on snapchat, period. I agree that he may be getting a misimpression when she continues to open his snaps.

If it persists outside of snapchat, have her clearly document that she told him she wasn't interested.

If it persists, involve the school. But don't under estimate what that will do.

How long has this been going on?

OP, you said this kid is popular, which to me indicates he's potentially an alpha who has never been told no and doesn't really know how to handle that, so he is acting out without fear of consequences. Think Daniel on Bachelor in Paradise who seems to have made it into his 30s acting like this - what a douche.

I'd think that if your daughter firmly told him to get lost (as you say she did) and then actually ignores him he will stop. But my fear is that his friends might then be jerks to her, or some popular girls in his circle (who might like him) would be mean to your daughter in retaliation to her/solidarity with him. Keep an eye out for this, and have her trust in her friends for comfort and back up. Try your best to stay in the loop and check in with her. And go full on momma bear if something goes awry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is where a strong dad can create a boundary. Your DH is upset because this (protection) is his primal role and he can't fulfill it thanks to our crazy culture that thinks a young girl should handle this all herself (ie. your DD thinks this). Can dad pick her up from school one day; be visible?

Also, make sure she does not accidentally give the boy intermittent reinforcement (this often happens if one is trying to be polite or not rude, but it can backfire).

Also google "extinction burst" because the boy will go through this first before quitting, and she should be ready for this.

I really think you guys need to talk to the school admin (psychologist if they have one). This needs to be on record. I'm sure they've dealt with this before (maybe even from this particular kid) and they need to be on notice. It takes a village to protect a young girl/boy in this situation.

Your first paragraph is bizarre. What "primal" role would you have fathers play?

Uh, what I said. Having dad going and being visible to show that this young female is protected by a family group; and that this juvenile male will have to deal with a mature alpha male if he continues to engage.

Young females have been protected all through our evolutionary history. It's only modern culture that has relaxed this. There are many benefits to having a relaxed culture (young females get freedom and independence) but there are some downsides, too, because they are vulnerable to predators.

In general, boys who like to bully those who are more vulnerable see things in a pecking order. Most will defer to a bigger stronger mature male who is highly motivated to kick his sorry ass if he encroaches on his DD. It's in the DNA.

This is crazy talk, the consequence of which is that the boy is only reinforced in his worldview that men decide what is or isn't appropriate and the DD is ripped from a sense of using her own agency.

I'm pretty sure she doesn't have to open his snaps even if she doesn't block him.

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, what I said. Having dad going and being visible to show that this young female is protected by a family group; and that this juvenile male will have to deal with a mature alpha male if he continues to engage.

Young females have been protected all through our evolutionary history. It's only modern culture that has relaxed this. There are many benefits to having a relaxed culture (young females get freedom and independence) but there are some downsides, too, because they are vulnerable to predators.

In general, boys who like to bully those who are more vulnerable see things in a pecking order. Most will defer to a bigger stronger mature male who is highly motivated to kick his sorry ass if he encroaches on his DD. It's in the DNA.

Humans are not baboons, chimpanzees, or gorillas. Or bonobos, but somehow people who make such arguments never bring up bonobos.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is where a strong dad can create a boundary. Your DH is upset because this (protection) is his primal role and he can't fulfill it thanks to our crazy culture that thinks a young girl should handle this all herself (ie. your DD thinks this). Can dad pick her up from school one day; be visible?

Also, make sure she does not accidentally give the boy intermittent reinforcement (this often happens if one is trying to be polite or not rude, but it can backfire).

Also google "extinction burst" because the boy will go through this first before quitting, and she should be ready for this.

I really think you guys need to talk to the school admin (psychologist if they have one). This needs to be on record. I'm sure they've dealt with this before (maybe even from this particular kid) and they need to be on notice. It takes a village to protect a young girl/boy in this situation.

Your first paragraph is bizarre. What "primal" role would you have fathers play?

Uh, what I said. Having dad going and being visible to show that this young female is protected by a family group; and that this juvenile male will have to deal with a mature alpha male if he continues to engage.

Young females have been protected all through our evolutionary history. It's only modern culture that has relaxed this. There are many benefits to having a relaxed culture (young females get freedom and independence) but there are some downsides, too, because they are vulnerable to predators.

In general, boys who like to bully those who are more vulnerable see things in a pecking order. Most will defer to a bigger stronger mature male who is highly motivated to kick his sorry ass if he encroaches on his DD. It's in the DNA.