Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

+100 It's anecdotal, but my story is virtually identical to yours. Low income, first to college in my family, propelled by a G&T program, very well off now. I've kept in touch with a number of kids from my old neighborhood who did not have this access and the outcomes are strikingly different.

How come you had access to a GT program but other kids in your neighborhood didn't? Is it possible that you and PP succeeded because you're smarter (or harder working, etc.) than your peers? It would follow that you'd also be the ones selected for a GT program, but doesn't mean that the program is why you succeeded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

what makes you think all the poorer kids in DC have no motivation or fathers? Do you realize a substantial proportion of ESL, at risk, and poorer kids get 4s and 5s on PARCC?

when you say "substantial" where are you getting tha tinformation. Its not true. When DC extrapolates data by race the chasm in scores grows into the grand canyon. Some do score well but its not substantail by a long shot

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

what makes you think all the poorer kids in DC have no motivation or fathers? Do you realize a substantial proportion of ESL, at risk, and poorer kids get 4s and 5s on PARCC?

These numbers are reading/math for DCPS and charters from http://results.osse.dc.gov/state/DC/assessment/1

ESL: 14/19
At Risk:13/13
Economically disadvantaged: 18/17

So it's not zero, but still likely that a test in gifted program would look a lot richer and whiter than DC schools or DC as a whole.

Anonymous wrote:The two articles barely skim the surface of the issues. I don't like how the Slate piece derides "white and Asian" parents prepping kids for GT tests as "gaming the system." Where's the gaming in helping kids prepare for any tough test? If my hard-scrabble immigrant parents hadn't played this "game," sacrificing time and money they didn't really have to send me to quality test prep on weekends, I couldn't have attended a NYC magnet high school, the best thing that's ever happened to me. The complaints in the article are yet another example of how immigrants, particularly East Asian immigrants, are seen as not playing by the rules in this country - damn them, they work too hard for the good of society, and expect their kids to do the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

what makes you think all the poorer kids in DC have no motivation or fathers? Do you realize a substantial proportion of ESL, at risk, and poorer kids get 4s and 5s on PARCC?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

what makes you think all the poorer kids in DC have no motivation or fathers? Do you realize a substantial proportion of ESL, at risk, and poorer kids get 4s and 5s on PARCC?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

+100 It's anecdotal, but my story is virtually identical to yours. Low income, first to college in my family, propelled by a G&T program, very well off now. I've kept in touch with a number of kids from my old neighborhood who did not have this access and the outcomes are strikingly different.

How come you had access to a GT program but other kids in your neighborhood didn't? Is it possible that you and PP succeeded because you're smarter (or harder working, etc.) than your peers? It would follow that you'd also be the ones selected for a GT program, but doesn't mean that the program is why you succeeded.

Please, having access to a GT program serving a mix of kids (mostly white and high SES) made all the difference for me as a kid, period. Being smarter and harder working wasn't going to do the trick in classrooms packed with low-income minority kids who had difficulty behaving and concentrating, and weren't getting much in the way of intellectual stimulation or structure at home. Being well-behaved and academically advanced meant that I was largely ignored by my lower grades teachers, because I wasn't a problem to them. Rubbing shoulders with mostly upper middle-class kids in school for ten years proved a lifesaver. I learned about trips to Disney World and national parks, vacations abroad, life insurance, backyard pools, turning off the TV to read for pleasure, birthday party protocols, how to play board games, you name it. After a few years with high SES peers, I saw a future for myself growing into a high SES person. If you grew up middle-class, you aren't necessarily going to understand that it's the whole GT package that saves bright low-income kids minority from tough lives, not just the academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

+100 It's anecdotal, but my story is virtually identical to yours. Low income, first to college in my family, propelled by a G&T program, very well off now. I've kept in touch with a number of kids from my old neighborhood who did not have this access and the outcomes are strikingly different.

How come you had access to a GT program but other kids in your neighborhood didn't? Is it possible that you and PP succeeded because you're smarter (or harder working, etc.) than your peers? It would follow that you'd also be the ones selected for a GT program, but doesn't mean that the program is why you succeeded.

Please, having access to a GT program serving a mix of kids (mostly white and high SES) made all the difference for me as a kid, period. Being smarter and harder working wasn't going to do the trick in classrooms packed with low-income minority kids who had difficulty behaving and concentrating, and weren't getting much in the way of intellectual stimulation or structure at home. Being well-behaved and academically advanced meant that I was largely ignored by my lower grades teachers, because I wasn't a problem to them. Rubbing shoulders with mostly upper middle-class kids in school for ten years proved a lifesaver. I learned about trips to Disney World and national parks, vacations abroad, life insurance, backyard pools, turning off the TV to read for pleasure, birthday party protocols, how to play board games, you name it. After a few years with high SES peers, I saw a future for myself growing into a high SES person. If you grew up middle-class, you aren't necessarily going to understand that it's the whole GT package that saves bright low-income kids minority from tough lives, not just the academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

+100 It's anecdotal, but my story is virtually identical to yours. Low income, first to college in my family, propelled by a G&T program, very well off now. I've kept in touch with a number of kids from my old neighborhood who did not have this access and the outcomes are strikingly different.

How come you had access to a GT program but other kids in your neighborhood didn't? Is it possible that you and PP succeeded because you're smarter (or harder working, etc.) than your peers? It would follow that you'd also be the ones selected for a GT program, but doesn't mean that the program is why you succeeded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

+100 It's anecdotal, but my story is virtually identical to yours. Low income, first to college in my family, propelled by a G&T program, very well off now. I've kept in touch with a number of kids from my old neighborhood who did not have this access and the outcomes are strikingly different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC charter schools do not need no does DCPS some old fashioned pull-out gifted program that will just cause more havoc like we read on the suburbs' forums.

Every time one of these threads comes up, I ask for research that proves that gifted programs have tangible benefits. I have yet to receive a response.

I'll be your response, and "tangible benefits" on this thread in the absence of common sense on this one. I grew up poor, minority, FARMs. Entered full-time GT program in Boston public system at age 8. Passed Boston Latin admissions test at 12. Graduated from Latin and went to Ivy and Ivy law school. Am happy senior attorney with federal agency with PhD spouse. No GT, and I'd probably still be in the bad news South Boston housing project where I grew up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?

what makes you think all the poorer kids in DC have no motivation or fathers? Do you realize a substantial proportion of ESL, at risk, and poorer kids get 4s and 5s on PARCC?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, that is true. The kids without the money and resources need some kind of pull out program -- be it "gifted" or some particularly challenging school -- the most.

I am right now in a small village in Eastern Europe where elementary school is year round (3 tracks to accommodate all the students).
There are 5 old computers in the entire school. The teachers use basic textbooks and a green chalk board. There are no Promethean boards, no LCD projectors , no listening centers, very minimal technology.
I was invited to the 3rd grade class to help students with their English pronunciation. English is their 3rd language, being taught 3 times a week (45 minutes each)
All the kids were able to read from their English textbook and answer the questions in writing. They lacked oral fluency and so did their teacher.
I then stayed for the other subjects and visited other grade levels . Almost every student was able to follow the written directions. This is the only school the village has so there's no such thing as gifted and talented; however there is daily music and chess instruction for all students.
So I truly do not get it when people complain that students do not perform well in the capital of the USA because the school lacks funding.
Instead of spending so much time on constant testing, writing measurement topics making sure mastery is reached or else reteach the same thing again and again, let the teachers follow a certain curriculum.
However, this won't work in the USA because education is such a big business, with lucrative charters mushrooming right and left, because they have something "innovative" to offer.

How is the generational poverty in that village compared to DC? Are most of the fathers in jail, dead, or on their way there? Do they kids have role models and motivation to succeed via school?