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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't be sad. Be happy you realized your limitations unlike me. We probably should have stopped at two. I am going to tell you the downsides of not listening to your gut. I in no way regret the additional two we had, just look back in hindsight to give you some insight.

My husband is add and has some depression issues. We both work. I can't quit for a variety of reasons. We have a child with ADHD. The stress of dealing with my husbands limitations and my son has nearly destroyed our marriage. We may make it out ok, we'll see.

The sheer noise of four children puts my husband over the edge. It is really hard to travel to hotels, everything costs way more because you need more plane tickets, extra or larger rooms. My children cannot do as many extra curricular activities because we just can't handle all the running. Your lifestyle changes a lot with more kids.

ditto. I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I have 4 and totally agree with this. I end up yelling at my kids all the time because they are so freaking loud. Dh works a lot, and so the kids can't do individual activities (only coordinated ones like ice skating or swimming or gymnastics where at least one other can do it at the same time). They don't mind, but it's not fair if you think about it. Dh and I don't have time for ourselves at all, it's very hard to work full time and manage it all.

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Anonymous wrote:I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I'm not sure whether I should say this, because it's probably good for the people who have 4 to believe that the kids are definitely having a blast, but: sometimes they are, and often they are feeling like it would be great if there were one less kid in the family. Or 2 or 3 less. I am one of four kids and there were times when I loved being part of a large family (and still do) but just as many times when I would have cut one from the herd in a heartbeat if it meant more time or attention. Four kids is a lot of kids, and there is only so much parental attention to go around.

What do you base that on?

I'm one of four kids, and I have four kids. I never wished that we had a smaller family growing up. Never. My parents adored us. We were loved. I was also raised in the 70s so I wasn't helicoptered. We played outside with the neighborhood kids and learned how to solve problems ourselves.

My four kids are loved. They receive plenty of attention---one on one, and as a group (and that's intentional: I'm not interested in raising self-centered snowflakes).

Do you have four kids, pp? If not, how could you possibly have any insight?

You seem a little defensive. It looks like PP bases her opinion on the bolded above. She has insight because she herself is one of 4 kids.

Your personal insight is based on your own experience of being one of four, just like PP's is. You thought being one of 4 was fantastic and wanted to recreate that. PP thought being one of 4 was less than fantastic and decided not to have so many children. These are both perfectly valid, normal experiences of being members of big families. (FWIW, perceptions of the merits of big families often differ by birth order and age gaps.)

However, you don't actually know how your kids view the experience, because you are not them.

Yes, of course everyone has a valid personal experience and opinion...that's precisely why I posted my experience: to combat her sweeping generalization.

My kids are happy and love their siblings. They see how I interact with my siblings, how we pitch in to help our parents and extended family, and they are learning that they should do the same for their own siblings. My kids are currently face timing their cousins and giggling. All four of them. While they have their moments when they get annoyed with a sibling, for the most part that results in temporary pairing off (2 vs 2).

I'm defensive because there's a bizarre anti-4 kids vibe on DCUM. This isn't the first thread to go there. Once three became the new two, everyone went batshit crazy against four. So weird.

I think the pp had subpar parents if she felt so neglected that she would have willingly cut 1-3 siblings out of the picture. Either that, or she's overly needy.

Yes, PP might be overly needy or had bad/mediocre parents, but her experience as 1 of 4 is just as valid as yours.

Agreed (and that's precisely what I said and why I posted).

Nobody can tell the op what to do. Only she knows what she's equipped to handle and how she wants to live her life.

That simply isn't true. It's true that she can have as many kids as she wants as we live in a country that doesn't limit us. Yes she is free to live her life, but when you choose to have kids your life isn't only about you.
However, it isn't true that she will magically know what number of kids she is equipped to handle, or that she'll be honest about it.
I''m one of 4 children, my siblings and I are still close as adults, we'd do anything for each other, but my mother should not have had 4 kids.
She had them because she was one of 4 and it was so fun, because my dad was one of 11 and it was so fun, because she always dreamed about having 2 boys and 2 girls etc.
The reality was she could not handle 4 kids with various needs and personalities, she resorted to dealing with us as a group. She did what she could to cope.
I think kids deserve more than a parent who is just coping. That's why I stopped at 2, for someone else that might be 1, for someone else that might be 6, but you can't say people automatically admit the truth to themselves because they don't and that can have lifelong consequences.
Now I laughed and played with my siblings as a kid, and I love my mom, she did the best she could, but that doesn't change the fact that there was a great deal of emotional neglect, sorry if that's too snowflaky for you, but it is what it is.

You sound mentally ill.

-NP

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Anonymous wrote:I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I'm not sure whether I should say this, because it's probably good for the people who have 4 to believe that the kids are definitely having a blast, but: sometimes they are, and often they are feeling like it would be great if there were one less kid in the family. Or 2 or 3 less. I am one of four kids and there were times when I loved being part of a large family (and still do) but just as many times when I would have cut one from the herd in a heartbeat if it meant more time or attention. Four kids is a lot of kids, and there is only so much parental attention to go around.

What do you base that on?

I'm one of four kids, and I have four kids. I never wished that we had a smaller family growing up. Never. My parents adored us. We were loved. I was also raised in the 70s so I wasn't helicoptered. We played outside with the neighborhood kids and learned how to solve problems ourselves.

My four kids are loved. They receive plenty of attention---one on one, and as a group (and that's intentional: I'm not interested in raising self-centered snowflakes).

Do you have four kids, pp? If not, how could you possibly have any insight?

You seem a little defensive. It looks like PP bases her opinion on the bolded above. She has insight because she herself is one of 4 kids.

Your personal insight is based on your own experience of being one of four, just like PP's is. You thought being one of 4 was fantastic and wanted to recreate that. PP thought being one of 4 was less than fantastic and decided not to have so many children. These are both perfectly valid, normal experiences of being members of big families. (FWIW, perceptions of the merits of big families often differ by birth order and age gaps.)

However, you don't actually know how your kids view the experience, because you are not them.

Yes, of course everyone has a valid personal experience and opinion...that's precisely why I posted my experience: to combat her sweeping generalization.

My kids are happy and love their siblings. They see how I interact with my siblings, how we pitch in to help our parents and extended family, and they are learning that they should do the same for their own siblings. My kids are currently face timing their cousins and giggling. All four of them. While they have their moments when they get annoyed with a sibling, for the most part that results in temporary pairing off (2 vs 2).

I'm defensive because there's a bizarre anti-4 kids vibe on DCUM. This isn't the first thread to go there. Once three became the new two, everyone went batshit crazy against four. So weird.

I think the pp had subpar parents if she felt so neglected that she would have willingly cut 1-3 siblings out of the picture. Either that, or she's overly needy.

Yes, PP might be overly needy or had bad/mediocre parents, but her experience as 1 of 4 is just as valid as yours.

Agreed (and that's precisely what I said and why I posted).

Nobody can tell the op what to do. Only she knows what she's equipped to handle and how she wants to live her life.

That simply isn't true. It's true that she can have as many kids as she wants as we live in a country that doesn't limit us. Yes she is free to live her life, but when you choose to have kids your life isn't only about you.
However, it isn't true that she will magically know what number of kids she is equipped to handle, or that she'll be honest about it.
I''m one of 4 children, my siblings and I are still close as adults, we'd do anything for each other, but my mother should not have had 4 kids.
She had them because she was one of 4 and it was so fun, because my dad was one of 11 and it was so fun, because she always dreamed about having 2 boys and 2 girls etc.
The reality was she could not handle 4 kids with various needs and personalities, she resorted to dealing with us as a group. She did what she could to cope.
I think kids deserve more than a parent who is just coping. That's why I stopped at 2, for someone else that might be 1, for someone else that might be 6, but you can't say people automatically admit the truth to themselves because they don't and that can have lifelong consequences.
Now I laughed and played with my siblings as a kid, and I love my mom, she did the best she could, but that doesn't change the fact that there was a great deal of emotional neglect, sorry if that's too snowflaky for you, but it is what it is.

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you had a fantasy of a big family not reality. You seem to see what reality might entail...take it to the logical conclusion that the fantasy never existed in the first place. Having a lot of kids is hard.

Ok, this is actually super helpful to me. You're right. Having a third is not going to magically turn my current family into the fun, easy-going family of my fantasy. Whether I have two or three, that fantasy does not exist.

Thank you for posting.

Have you seen parents of big families, OP? Do they look like they can handle it? Really?

Anonymous wrote:I say this sincerely and not with snark - go read a few threads on the infertility board. Lots of women would love to have one, let alone two kids. And yes - focus on what you have been blessed with instead of focusing on what you don't have.

Anonymous wrote:First. World. Problems.

Anonymous wrote:"You clearly like sweeping generalizations and see everything in black and white. Psychology has evidence-based theories on that.

Irony much?

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Anonymous wrote:I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I'm not sure whether I should say this, because it's probably good for the people who have 4 to believe that the kids are definitely having a blast, but: sometimes they are, and often they are feeling like it would be great if there were one less kid in the family. Or 2 or 3 less. I am one of four kids and there were times when I loved being part of a large family (and still do) but just as many times when I would have cut one from the herd in a heartbeat if it meant more time or attention. Four kids is a lot of kids, and there is only so much parental attention to go around.

What do you base that on?

I'm one of four kids, and I have four kids. I never wished that we had a smaller family growing up. Never. My parents adored us. We were loved. I was also raised in the 70s so I wasn't helicoptered. We played outside with the neighborhood kids and learned how to solve problems ourselves.

My four kids are loved. They receive plenty of attention---one on one, and as a group (and that's intentional: I'm not interested in raising self-centered snowflakes).

Do you have four kids, pp? If not, how could you possibly have any insight?

You seem a little defensive. It looks like PP bases her opinion on the bolded above. She has insight because she herself is one of 4 kids.

Your personal insight is based on your own experience of being one of four, just like PP's is. You thought being one of 4 was fantastic and wanted to recreate that. PP thought being one of 4 was less than fantastic and decided not to have so many children. These are both perfectly valid, normal experiences of being members of big families. (FWIW, perceptions of the merits of big families often differ by birth order and age gaps.)

However, you don't actually know how your kids view the experience, because you are not them.

Yes, of course everyone has a valid personal experience and opinion...that's precisely why I posted my experience: to combat her sweeping generalization.

My kids are happy and love their siblings. They see how I interact with my siblings, how we pitch in to help our parents and extended family, and they are learning that they should do the same for their own siblings. My kids are currently face timing their cousins and giggling. All four of them. While they have their moments when they get annoyed with a sibling, for the most part that results in temporary pairing off (2 vs 2).

I'm defensive because there's a bizarre anti-4 kids vibe on DCUM. This isn't the first thread to go there. Once three became the new two, everyone went batshit crazy against four. So weird.

I think the pp had subpar parents if she felt so neglected that she would have willingly cut 1-3 siblings out of the picture. Either that, or she's overly needy.

Who are you to say what is too needy? I hope that doesn't translate over to your kids, because that is exactly what pps are talking about parents of 4 not being able to handle it Downplaying a kids differing needs or emotions because you don't want to raise a snowflake isn't not being a helicopter it's neglect.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I'm not sure whether I should say this, because it's probably good for the people who have 4 to believe that the kids are definitely having a blast, but: sometimes they are, and often they are feeling like it would be great if there were one less kid in the family. Or 2 or 3 less. I am one of four kids and there were times when I loved being part of a large family (and still do) but just as many times when I would have cut one from the herd in a heartbeat if it meant more time or attention. Four kids is a lot of kids, and there is only so much parental attention to go around.

What do you base that on?

I'm one of four kids, and I have four kids. I never wished that we had a smaller family growing up. Never. My parents adored us. We were loved. I was also raised in the 70s so I wasn't helicoptered. We played outside with the neighborhood kids and learned how to solve problems ourselves.

My four kids are loved. They receive plenty of attention---one on one, and as a group (and that's intentional: I'm not interested in raising self-centered snowflakes).

Do you have four kids, pp? If not, how could you possibly have any insight?

You seem a little defensive. It looks like PP bases her opinion on the bolded above. She has insight because she herself is one of 4 kids.

Your personal insight is based on your own experience of being one of four, just like PP's is. You thought being one of 4 was fantastic and wanted to recreate that. PP thought being one of 4 was less than fantastic and decided not to have so many children. These are both perfectly valid, normal experiences of being members of big families. (FWIW, perceptions of the merits of big families often differ by birth order and age gaps.)

However, you don't actually know how your kids view the experience, because you are not them.

Yes, of course everyone has a valid personal experience and opinion...that's precisely why I posted my experience: to combat her sweeping generalization.

My kids are happy and love their siblings. They see how I interact with my siblings, how we pitch in to help our parents and extended family, and they are learning that they should do the same for their own siblings. My kids are currently face timing their cousins and giggling. All four of them. While they have their moments when they get annoyed with a sibling, for the most part that results in temporary pairing off (2 vs 2).

I'm defensive because there's a bizarre anti-4 kids vibe on DCUM. This isn't the first thread to go there. Once three became the new two, everyone went batshit crazy against four. So weird.

I think the pp had subpar parents if she felt so neglected that she would have willingly cut 1-3 siblings out of the picture. Either that, or she's overly needy.

Yes, PP might be overly needy or had bad/mediocre parents, but her experience as 1 of 4 is just as valid as yours.

Agreed (and that's precisely what I said and why I posted).

Nobody can tell the op what to do. Only she knows what she's equipped to handle and how she wants to live her life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too have 4. It is very, very hard on a marriage. Kids have a blast, but the parents definitely sacrifice, perhaps too much for their health and well-being.

I'm not sure whether I should say this, because it's probably good for the people who have 4 to believe that the kids are definitely having a blast, but: sometimes they are, and often they are feeling like it would be great if there were one less kid in the family. Or 2 or 3 less. I am one of four kids and there were times when I loved being part of a large family (and still do) but just as many times when I would have cut one from the herd in a heartbeat if it meant more time or attention. Four kids is a lot of kids, and there is only so much parental attention to go around.

What do you base that on?

I'm one of four kids, and I have four kids. I never wished that we had a smaller family growing up. Never. My parents adored us. We were loved. I was also raised in the 70s so I wasn't helicoptered. We played outside with the neighborhood kids and learned how to solve problems ourselves.

My four kids are loved. They receive plenty of attention---one on one, and as a group (and that's intentional: I'm not interested in raising self-centered snowflakes).

Do you have four kids, pp? If not, how could you possibly have any insight?

You seem a little defensive. It looks like PP bases her opinion on the bolded above. She has insight because she herself is one of 4 kids.

Your personal insight is based on your own experience of being one of four, just like PP's is. You thought being one of 4 was fantastic and wanted to recreate that. PP thought being one of 4 was less than fantastic and decided not to have so many children. These are both perfectly valid, normal experiences of being members of big families. (FWIW, perceptions of the merits of big families often differ by birth order and age gaps.)

However, you don't actually know how your kids view the experience, because you are not them.

Yes, of course everyone has a valid personal experience and opinion...that's precisely why I posted my experience: to combat her sweeping generalization.

My kids are happy and love their siblings. They see how I interact with my siblings, how we pitch in to help our parents and extended family, and they are learning that they should do the same for their own siblings. My kids are currently face timing their cousins and giggling. All four of them. While they have their moments when they get annoyed with a sibling, for the most part that results in temporary pairing off (2 vs 2).

I'm defensive because there's a bizarre anti-4 kids vibe on DCUM. This isn't the first thread to go there. Once three became the new two, everyone went batshit crazy against four. So weird.

I think the pp had subpar parents if she felt so neglected that she would have willingly cut 1-3 siblings out of the picture. Either that, or she's overly needy.