Anonymous wrote:I went to a state university for undergrad and an elite school for my PhD.

My take is the graduates of the state school are every bit as good as those who graduate from the elite school.

There's no way you really believe this.

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean it's the school that did that.

The research is very clear that students who get into elite schools but don't attend do just as well as those who DO attend. Which, again, shows that it's not really the school, it's the students themselves.

+1

This.

Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

You keep posting this, let's see a cite.

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

It's the underlying person not the school that determines how successful people will be. When you skim the cream of the crop of course you have a lot of success. But if you do a comparison of top applicants with similar backgrounds who go to state schools vs Ivy schools, the differences are minimal to non-existent.

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean it's the school that did that.

The research is very clear that students who get into elite schools but don't attend do just as well as those who DO attend. Which, again, shows that it's not really the school, it's the students themselves.

+1

This.

Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

10+ years on from HS i'm starting to think it had nothing to do with the college. The kids that were kind of standouts, not just in terms of academics, but personality, have all kind of done well. It's like exactly who you would expect to do well, doing well in that field. Some of them went to Ivies, the majority did not. Then again there were students who went to Ivies that didn't seem particularly impressive that haven't done much. I think the quality of a person is much more important (though a network helps)

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean it's the school that did that.

The research is very clear that students who get into elite schools but don't attend do just as well as those who DO attend. Which, again, shows that it's not really the school, it's the students themselves.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean it's the school that did that.

The research is very clear that students who get into elite schools but don't attend do just as well as those who DO attend. Which, again, shows that it's not really the school, it's the students themselves.

I have degrees from three different Ivies. I am fairly anti-elite now, especially for college. (Professional degrees are a little different because the network matters a lot.) For college, you can get a way better education elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Anonymous wrote:I dunno. I wish I hadn't taken out so much money in loans to go to Ivy. Ten years later and I have a menial job that I dislike.

Hah like me I was a working class striver who went to an ivy. Without the network and family connections, career wise an ivy degree isn't worth THAT much. It will help for applying to jobs, but won't get you into the masters of the universe club -- you have to born into that.

The thing I notice more often is how many Ivy-obsessed people didn't go to an Ivy. Could also substitute Harvard for Ivy in that sentence. Probably more people think "my life would have been different if only...." than think "I am where/who I am because of my college."

Or maybe it just stands out more to me because I see elite obsession as more irrational than anti-elitism.

I went to a state university for undergrad and an elite school for my PhD.

My take is the graduates of the state school are every bit as good as those who graduate from the elite school. The difference is almost everyone admitted to the elite graduated, whereas the state school had a 70% attrition rate.

Where it makes a difference is the kids at the elite school are more connected: they tend to be more affluent. The networking is stronger. This is particularly useful in certain fields.

As a scientist, we do not care who you know, who your father (or mother) is, etc. We are more concerned with the ideas and concepts proffered. In that scenario, elites do not matter.

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Anonymous wrote:Had some family yesterday calling Ivies overrated, it doesn't matter where you go to undergrad, going overboard about how fantastic their children's state school or unranked private college is. I've never encountered anyone with a credential from an elite who talks like that.

Uh, have you ever encountered someone from a state school? Have you ever hired multiple people from varying schools and noticed how the 'elite education' employees can be insufferably full of themselves and not necessarily great employees?

We have a Cornell grad and a Dartmouth grad - both wonderful and humble people and the opposite of "full of themselves".

You sound jealous, PP.

NP here -- but are Cornell and Dartmouth really top Ivies?

Just kidding.

I went to Stanford and Harvard Law, and while I got a great education at both places and feel like the names have opened doors for me, I also know it's no golden ticket. We all know jerks who went to "elite" schools and ended up drinking Woolite in the gutter. And we all know state school grads who are fabulously successful, yet salt-of-the-earth folks. Anecdotes will only get you so far, but the research yields murkier and more nuanced data. Here's an interesting summary of some results: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/weekinreview/19steinberg.html

My take: the obsession with "elite" colleges -- whether reverential or dismissive -- is unhealthy, short-sighted, and based on specious reasoning. Where you went to college says a lot about who you were when you were 18. I'm closing in on 60, and I know that what you do after that is what really makes a difference in terms of both personal and professional success in the long-run.

I dunno. I wish I hadn't taken out so much money in loans to go to Ivy. Ten years later and I have a menial job that I dislike.

I went to Harvard undergrad and Boston College for my MA. My profs at BC were excellent, and their academic pedigrees were comparable to those of my Harvard profs. My son goes to BC now for undergrad, and I'm fine with that. He did not get into Harvard as we had hoped, but I think the education he is getting at BC is great, and he has the same caliber of instructor that he would have had at Harvard.

(But for the people who keep saying that your undergrad doesn't matter, Harvard College is more prestigious than any grad program at Harvard--especially the B school--so I'm confident that my undergrad speaks for itself).