Representative Democracy vs pure democracy

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/democracy-is-not-your-plaything-1495149082

Mr. Trump’s longtime foes, especially Democrats and progressives, are in the throes of a kind of obsessive delight. Every new blunder, every suggestion of an illegality, gives them pleasure. “He’ll be gone by autumn.”

But he was duly and legally elected by tens of millions of Americans who had legitimate reasons to support him, who knew they were throwing the long ball, and who, polls suggest, continue to support him. They believe the press is trying to kill him. “He’s new, not a politician, give him a chance.” What would it do to them, what would it say to them, to have him brusquely removed by his enemies after so little time? Would it tell them democracy is a con, the swamp always wins, you nobodies can make your little choices but we’re in control? What will that do to their faith in our institutions, in democracy itself?"

But there’s an emerging sense of tragedy, isn’t there? Crucially needed reforms in taxing, regulation and infrastructure—changes the country needs!—are thwarted, all momentum killed. Markets are nervous.

The world sees the U.S. political system once again as a circus. Once the circus comes to town, it consumes everything, absorbs all energy.

I asked the ambassador to the U.S. from one of our greatest allies: “What does Europe say now when America leaves the room?” You’re still great, he said, but “we think you’re having a nervous breakdown.”

Well, for the 3 million more of us who voted for the other candidate, having him removed so quickly would be an indication that our checks and balances work and that our constitution is strong and that this country will not stand by and watch grift and corruption destroy it.

Trump, by the way, was not elected by a democracy. He was elected by the electoral system. The majority of voters voted for someone else.

As for giving him "a chance" - he had it and he blew it starting from day one.

He won 84% of the counties.

If you don't like him, vote him out in 4 years. You had your chance on November 8, you lost. Get over it.

I am over it. And now I'm enjoying watching his presidency implode.

By the way, the percentage of counties voting for a candidate doesn't have anything to do with the definition of democracy. Look it up.

Neither does the meaningless 3 million more votes in California.

If this country were a pure democracy, those 3 million more votes would have meant HRC was president. But we're not a democracy in that way, so Peggy Noonan should stop whining.

We are a constitutional democracy. Arguing about popular votes is meaningless in our form of democracy.

Because we are a Republic.

Anonymous wrote:
The fact that the majority of Americans don't know the difference between a republic and a democracy is symptomatic of the problems facing us as a nation. This ignorance leads to conservatives claiming that progressivism is a form of fascism. Parents are failing their children and this nation. It's a sad commentary when John Oliver is one of the few people with a platform which enables him to do deep dives into issues.

A republic is a form of democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic

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Anonymous wrote:Trump did not win the majority of American voters so no - he did not win in a democracy. Happy?

+1. We are a republic. Trump won because we are NOT a democracy. God I wish you people took civics.

Took it in 7th grade. I don't remember all that stuff 30+ years later. Most people don't unless they have a strong interest in a particular subject.

And this is how we end. Up with a third rate thin skinned reality TV star as president. Low information, and proud of ignorance voters.

If my 13 year old can grasp this stuff, you can too.

Bless your hearts.

My 13 year old is grasping it just fine. I grasped it just fine at 13 years old, too. I just didn't remember the difference between a democracy and a republic 35 years ago. But I voted for Hillary anyway.

Another low information who voted for Hillary

The fact that the majority of Americans don't know the difference between a republic and a democracy is symptomatic of the problems facing us as a nation. This ignorance leads to conservatives claiming that progressivism is a form of fascism. Parents are failing their children and this nation. It's a sad commentary when John Oliver is one of the few people with a platform which enables him to do deep dives into issues.

This "give him a chance" and "he's not a politician, he's new to this" is just sheer crap.

His supporters voted for him "because he's not a lying politician, he's not corrupt, he's an effective leader and will get things done" - yet his first 100 days have already proven the exact opposite. He lies more than any politician in my lifetime, his funneling of tax dollars to his resorts and using the White House to promote Trump and Ivanka brands for personal profit is grotesque, and his administration has shown itself to be chaotic, poorly managed and dysfunctional. And that's before you even get into all of the absolutely horrible knee-jerk policy decisions and picks for cabinet and agency heads who want to destroy and undermine the agencies they are supposed to lead (like Pruitt).

Give him a chance? Puh-frickin-leeeze. He's blowing his chance bigtime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump did not win the majority of American voters so no - he did not win in a democracy. Happy?

+1. We are a republic. Trump won because we are NOT a democracy. God I wish you people took civics.

Took it in 7th grade. I don't remember all that stuff 30+ years later. Most people don't unless they have a strong interest in a particular subject.

And this is how we end. Up with a third rate thin skinned reality TV star as president. Low information, and proud of ignorance voters.

If my 13 year old can grasp this stuff, you can too.

Bless your hearts.

My 13 year old is grasping it just fine. I grasped it just fine at 13 years old, too. I just didn't remember the difference between a democracy and a republic 35 years ago. But I voted for Hillary anyway.

Another low information who voted for Hillary

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump did not win the majority of American voters so no - he did not win in a democracy. Happy?

+1. We are a republic. Trump won because we are NOT a democracy. God I wish you people took civics.

Took it in 7th grade. I don't remember all that stuff 30+ years later. Most people don't unless they have a strong interest in a particular subject.

Google is your friend

I accept the electoral college results.

I don't accept Russian interference and trump's bizarre actions and decisions.

We the people need the truth. If the investigation finds he did nothing wrong, so be it.

Anonymous wrote:The number one threat to our "democracy"/democratic republic is how much money is in politics. We need campaign finance reform desperately, on all sides.

+1. I hope one side benefit from the investigation of this past election is that so much of the dark money pouring in is found to be from Russia that even the GOP will have no choice but to agree to campaign finance reform laws.

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Anonymous wrote:The EC in modern times does not operate as the Founding Fathers intended it

If you read the Federalist papers regarding the EC, you will see that we have actually screwed it up with modern politics.

Donald Trump was the candidate they warned us about.

True Constitutionalists would know this.

True Constitutionalists also know that only the wealthy "liberal elites" (white landowning men) are supposed to vote.

Um, check some homeownership rates and I think you'll find that's it's higher among conservatives than liberals. Land costs a lot more in the blue states.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The EC in modern times does not operate as the Founding Fathers intended it

If you read the Federalist papers regarding the EC, you will see that we have actually screwed it up with modern politics.

Donald Trump was the candidate they warned us about.

True Constitutionalists would know this.

True Constitutionalists also know that only the wealthy "liberal elites" (white landowning men) are supposed to vote.

Right, but even in that case, the EC was supposed to allow for some independence by the electors. Even landowning White men could be duped.

The EC was supposed to stop a candidate just like Trump. The electors were not bound by a state vote.

The failure of this failsafe to stop Trump actually signals to me that it needs to go, along with a bunch of other reasons (including its roots in our slave owning past)

Anonymous wrote:The problem isn't democracy, it's Republicans.

Take it away, ex-Republican John Cole:

It’s the same line of crap from the Republicans, just the names and factions change. The money guys didn’t really know the racists and bigots were serious. They didn’t know the religious nuts were serious. They didn’t know the neocons were serious. They didn’t know the teabaggers were serious. They didn’t know the alt right was serious. Over and over and fucking over again.

They knew they were serious, they just thought they could control them and get their fucking tax cuts, gut social security and medicare, and siphon off money to their buddies in Wall Street, the fossil fuel industry, while throwing a little coin to the outrage machine grifters to keep greasing the skids. And the inmates got loose. Again.

Exactly

The problem isn't democracy, it's Republicans.

Take it away, ex-Republican John Cole:

It’s the same line of crap from the Republicans, just the names and factions change. The money guys didn’t really know the racists and bigots were serious. They didn’t know the religious nuts were serious. They didn’t know the neocons were serious. They didn’t know the teabaggers were serious. They didn’t know the alt right was serious. Over and over and fucking over again.

They knew they were serious, they just thought they could control them and get their fucking tax cuts, gut social security and medicare, and siphon off money to their buddies in Wall Street, the fossil fuel industry, while throwing a little coin to the outrage machine grifters to keep greasing the skids. And the inmates got loose. Again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.wsj.com/articles/democracy-is-not-your-plaything-1495149082

Mr. Trump’s longtime foes, especially Democrats and progressives, are in the throes of a kind of obsessive delight. Every new blunder, every suggestion of an illegality, gives them pleasure. “He’ll be gone by autumn.”

But he was duly and legally elected by tens of millions of Americans who had legitimate reasons to support him, who knew they were throwing the long ball, and who, polls suggest, continue to support him. They believe the press is trying to kill him. “He’s new, not a politician, give him a chance.” What would it do to them, what would it say to them, to have him brusquely removed by his enemies after so little time? Would it tell them democracy is a con, the swamp always wins, you nobodies can make your little choices but we’re in control? What will that do to their faith in our institutions, in democracy itself?"

But there’s an emerging sense of tragedy, isn’t there? Crucially needed reforms in taxing, regulation and infrastructure—changes the country needs!—are thwarted, all momentum killed. Markets are nervous.

The world sees the U.S. political system once again as a circus. Once the circus comes to town, it consumes everything, absorbs all energy.

I asked the ambassador to the U.S. from one of our greatest allies: “What does Europe say now when America leaves the room?” You’re still great, he said, but “we think you’re having a nervous breakdown.”

Well, for the 3 million more of us who voted for the other candidate, having him removed so quickly would be an indication that our checks and balances work and that our constitution is strong and that this country will not stand by and watch grift and corruption destroy it.

Trump, by the way, was not elected by a democracy. He was elected by the electoral system. The majority of voters voted for someone else.

As for giving him "a chance" - he had it and he blew it starting from day one.

He won 84% of the counties.

If you don't like him, vote him out in 4 years. You had your chance on November 8, you lost. Get over it.

I am over it. And now I'm enjoying watching his presidency implode.

By the way, the percentage of counties voting for a candidate doesn't have anything to do with the definition of democracy. Look it up.

Neither does the meaningless 3 million more votes in California.

If this country were a pure democracy, those 3 million more votes would have meant HRC was president. But we're not a democracy in that way, so Peggy Noonan should stop whining.

We are a constitutional democracy. Arguing about popular votes is meaningless in our form of democracy.

No, it's not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump did not win the majority of American voters so no - he did not win in a democracy. Happy?

Of course not. Because they are whiny little bitches.

Haha, Burn Notice?