Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posts about peoples' grief and spiritual journeys are moving. BUT, the point of the OP, I believe, was why does it take a personal experience of senseless tragedy before people face the existence of senseless tragedy? It's a sad comment on humanity that anyone could get to the age of 18 without realizing that babies die, people die of painful cancers at young ages, and millions of innocent people have died senselessly in the Holocaust and wars and plenty of other horrific events. Prior to your own parents dying did you not realize this? Did you think people deserved this suffering? It reminds me of politicians who say "I have daughters" to explain their opposition to rape or sexual assault. Would you not give a shit about rape if you had sons? If people were able to have more empathy just based on being human we would all be so much better off.

Honestly I think it's because some where deep inside people believe that others might have deserved their fate. When they are forced to face stuff in their own lives, they have to come to terms with the randomness of life.

Anonymous wrote:The posts about peoples' grief and spiritual journeys are moving. BUT, the point of the OP, I believe, was why does it take a personal experience of senseless tragedy before people face the existence of senseless tragedy? It's a sad comment on humanity that anyone could get to the age of 18 without realizing that babies die, people die of painful cancers at young ages, and millions of innocent people have died senselessly in the Holocaust and wars and plenty of other horrific events. Prior to your own parents dying did you not realize this? Did you think people deserved this suffering? It reminds me of politicians who say "I have daughters" to explain their opposition to rape or sexual assault. Would you not give a shit about rape if you had sons? If people were able to have more empathy just based on being human we would all be so much better off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

Under these circumstances, it's a lot easier to assume that there is no God than to try to figure out why a supposedly good god would be so obviously cruel.

I think there are roughly 3 paths:
- still believing god is good and benevolent, but we can't understand their reasons
- god is a a pretty vengeful, angry, and powerful god that we let down, and thus terrible things happen (most religions pre organized religion tended toward this idea)
- we're all dust in the wind, there are no gods, and stuff just happens because that's life and those are our cards

Did you read this in the Bible somewhere or did they tell you this in church? How do you know it's true?

I'd add a fourth, which is sort of a combination of one and two above: God is both benevolent and vengeful, wielding power of good and evil, depending on our actions and his mood.

Or that God doesn't kill anyone and doesn't wish for anyone to suffer and die. God does not "need" any of our loved ones in heaven. Life on earth requires death and suffering, it is quite literally in the fabric of nature. God brings relationship, meaning and transformation from death/suffering. Out of death we are transformed into new and everlasting life. Not just when we physically die, but also daily as we fail, accept our powerlessness to control the world around us, and learn to live in joy and love.

Anonymous wrote: I'm not trying to sound insensitive, but I don't really understand this. Presumably if you were religious to begin with you knew that all people died eventually. So is this reasoning usually just people who never reconciled the idea of death within their religion? I'm also not talking about people who say "there is no god" in the heat of their grief, but people who 20 yrs down the road still don't believe in god because of a specific person's death.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

Under these circumstances, it's a lot easier to assume that there is no God than to try to figure out why a supposedly good god would be so obviously cruel.

I think there are roughly 3 paths:
- still believing god is good and benevolent, but we can't understand their reasons
- god is a a pretty vengeful, angry, and powerful god that we let down, and thus terrible things happen (most religions pre organized religion tended toward this idea)
- we're all dust in the wind, there are no gods, and stuff just happens because that's life and those are our cards

I'd add a fourth, which is sort of a combination of one and two above: God is both benevolent and vengeful, wielding power of good and evil, depending on our actions and his mood.

Or that God doesn't kill anyone and doesn't wish for anyone to suffer and die. God does not "need" any of our loved ones in heaven. Life on earth requires death and suffering, it is quite literally in the fabric of nature. God brings relationship, meaning and transformation from death/suffering. Out of death we are transformed into new and everlasting life. Not just when we physically die, but also daily as we fail, accept our powerlessness to control the world around us, and learn to live in joy and love.

Anonymous wrote:no such thing as God

rape? cancer? murder? poverty?

If we come from some "higher being," this being is very hands off.

I woke up before my father died after 6 years of suffering.

Religion is about stories - fables to create fear in people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

You projecting a perfect picture of what your life would be if your parents were alive. How do you know if the grandfather would not abuse your child sexually? How do you know that your parents would not get divorced and you had a bigger trauma? You don't.

Second PP, you're a weird bird.

either that or that shit happened to you and YOU'RE projecting your unresolved issues on the first PP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

You projecting a perfect picture of what your life would be if your parents were alive. How do you know if the grandfather would not abuse your child sexually? How do you know that your parents would not get divorced and you had a bigger trauma? You don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

Under these circumstances, it's a lot easier to assume that there is no God than to try to figure out why a supposedly good god would be so obviously cruel.

I think there are roughly 3 paths:
- still believing god is good and benevolent, but we can't understand their reasons
- god is a a pretty vengeful, angry, and powerful god that we let down, and thus terrible things happen (most religions pre organized religion tended toward this idea)
- we're all dust in the wind, there are no gods, and stuff just happens because that's life and those are our cards

I'd add a fourth, which is sort of a combination of one and two above: God is both benevolent and vengeful, wielding power of good and evil, depending on our actions and his mood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I lost both my parents when I was young. Religious people have told me that God called them home, that he has a bigger plan, that my strength from dealing with these losses is a gift. Bullshit. I needed my parents. So many people have both parents well into their lives. My children will never know their grandparents. Why would god do this to me? I was raised religious and both parents were religious until their deaths. I just don't believe anymore.

You projecting a perfect picture of what your life would be if your parents were alive. How do you know if the grandfather would not abuse your child sexually? How do you know that your parents would not get divorced and you had a bigger trauma? You don't.