Anonymous
05/02/2017 19:34
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:I think so much of this depends on your field. I went to strong state U for both undergrad and grad (different schools in different states) and have had a solid career in marketing research. If I'd wanted to go into a big name management consulting firm then, sure, the college brand would probably matter a lot more but I wasn't interested in doing that. I've been in my field for 20 yrs. Nobody cares where I went to school, never comes up. They do care about the firms I've worked at and the clients I've had. My first job out of undergrad was at a now well-known firm and I got it in large part because of the research project I did as my senior capstone at State U.
I hire interns for my firm now and the strongest ones over the past few years have been from big state U's. I've hired a couple from Ivy's and while they are very smart they have been weaker on the interpersonal skills. One, a Penn grad, got all pissy about having to do menial grunt-work stuff that she didn't think she should have to do because she went to Penn (seriously, she said that to me, her supervisor!). I've met plenty of lovely Penn and other Ivy grads and have great friends who went to Ivys, but as a hiring manager I do now come at interviewing Ivy grads with a particular focus on screening for that egotistical attitude. It definitely exists at the "Tier 1" schools to a greater degree than at Big State U.
I work with people from a wide range of schools, both undergrad and grad and I think what you do with the opportunities you have while you are at school matters a lot more than the specific name brand.
Consider that, as a market researcher in the greater DC area, you might not be getting the highest caliber of Ivy grad. They will likely be routed directly to Goldman, Google, McKinsey etc.
The last paragraph of your comment is basically feel-good pablum, and contradicted by the evidence presented in the article.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 19:29
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Academically, looking at the differences between tier 1 and tier 3 is minimal, and what is best for an individual is where they should go.
Tier 1 examples, HYPS (NYU?), MIT, Caltech, Duke? RPI? Good schools.
RPI? Tier 1.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 19:19
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think those stats are probably greatly distorted by for-profit colleges in Tier 4. There's a big difference between University of Phoenix Online and a solid branch campus of a state U, but they're both Tier 4.
Yes. I know if I saw University of Phoenix on a resume, that would not be a plus. But, I have no problem with Slippery Rock or IUP or JMU.
Well, the reputation part is unfortunate, because a student who does manage to get a degree from University of Phoenix might just be a very hard worker and good employee and worth a chance. But, likely they're already coming from unprivileged backgrounds where they are the first in their generation to go to college, and hence already at a disadvantage when it comes to future earnings and grad schools.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 19:05
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
I think so much of this depends on your field. I went to strong state U for both undergrad and grad (different schools in different states) and have had a solid career in marketing research. If I'd wanted to go into a big name management consulting firm then, sure, the college brand would probably matter a lot more but I wasn't interested in doing that. I've been in my field for 20 yrs. Nobody cares where I went to school, never comes up. They do care about the firms I've worked at and the clients I've had. My first job out of undergrad was at a now well-known firm and I got it in large part because of the research project I did as my senior capstone at State U.
I hire interns for my firm now and the strongest ones over the past few years have been from big state U's. I've hired a couple from Ivy's and while they are very smart they have been weaker on the interpersonal skills. One, a Penn grad, got all pissy about having to do menial grunt-work stuff that she didn't think she should have to do because she went to Penn (seriously, she said that to me, her supervisor!). I've met plenty of lovely Penn and other Ivy grads and have great friends who went to Ivys, but as a hiring manager I do now come at interviewing Ivy grads with a particular focus on screening for that egotistical attitude. It definitely exists at the "Tier 1" schools to a greater degree than at Big State U.
I work with people from a wide range of schools, both undergrad and grad and I think what you do with the opportunities you have while you are at school matters a lot more than the specific name brand.
I hire interns for my firm now and the strongest ones over the past few years have been from big state U's. I've hired a couple from Ivy's and while they are very smart they have been weaker on the interpersonal skills. One, a Penn grad, got all pissy about having to do menial grunt-work stuff that she didn't think she should have to do because she went to Penn (seriously, she said that to me, her supervisor!). I've met plenty of lovely Penn and other Ivy grads and have great friends who went to Ivys, but as a hiring manager I do now come at interviewing Ivy grads with a particular focus on screening for that egotistical attitude. It definitely exists at the "Tier 1" schools to a greater degree than at Big State U.
I work with people from a wide range of schools, both undergrad and grad and I think what you do with the opportunities you have while you are at school matters a lot more than the specific name brand.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 18:54
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:I think those stats are probably greatly distorted by for-profit colleges in Tier 4. There's a big difference between University of Phoenix Online and a solid branch campus of a state U, but they're both Tier 4.
Yes. I know if I saw University of Phoenix on a resume, that would not be a plus. But, I have no problem with Slippery Rock or IUP or JMU.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 18:51
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
I think those stats are probably greatly distorted by for-profit colleges in Tier 4. There's a big difference between University of Phoenix Online and a solid branch campus of a state U, but they're both Tier 4.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 18:43
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Academically, looking at the differences between tier 1 and tier 3 is minimal, and what is best for an individual is where they should go.
Tier 1 examples, HYPS (NYU?), MIT, Caltech, Duke? RPI? Good schools.
Tier 2, by their definitions are the SLAC's
Tier 3 are mostly the premier private schools...UCal, SUNY, UMD, PSU, UMD, UDEL, UVA, Va Tech, UNC, etc.
Tier 4 are regional schools.
Tier 1-3 earn the same. Tier 4 are much lower. SO, they are saying that UVA, Va Tech and W & M have the same earning potential as Harvard, etc.
But, it probably is more a result of who goes where rather than the school.
There is not a significant difference in the capabilities of people who graduate from Tier 1, 2, or 3. Some people do not want the big schools...prefer the intimate atmosphere of a SLAC. Others are unable to spend the cash for an elite, or prefer the states schools. Some people what the scene at a state school.
Tier 1 examples, HYPS (NYU?), MIT, Caltech, Duke? RPI? Good schools.
Tier 2, by their definitions are the SLAC's
Tier 3 are mostly the premier private schools...UCal, SUNY, UMD, PSU, UMD, UDEL, UVA, Va Tech, UNC, etc.
Tier 4 are regional schools.
Tier 1-3 earn the same. Tier 4 are much lower. SO, they are saying that UVA, Va Tech and W & M have the same earning potential as Harvard, etc.
But, it probably is more a result of who goes where rather than the school.
There is not a significant difference in the capabilities of people who graduate from Tier 1, 2, or 3. Some people do not want the big schools...prefer the intimate atmosphere of a SLAC. Others are unable to spend the cash for an elite, or prefer the states schools. Some people what the scene at a state school.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 18:05
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is how I read the research:
1. If you have a choice of a Tier 1 school vs a Tier 2/3 school with merit aid, it does not make sense to go to a Tier 1 school.
2. If you think your life is going to be "better" if you make $186k/yr vs. $135K/yr you have more problems than an elite graduate degree can solve.
I totally agree. At that level of income, $50k is not a deal breaker in the quality of life.
Depends. Elites give excellent merit aid, so for many it may be worth it. Besides, $50k isn't just $50k, it's $50k *a year*, plus interest if you can save it. I'm not good with numbers, but that seems like a lot, over time.
The Ivies, MIT, and elites like Amherst do NOT give any merit aid. What are you talking about?
Sorry, meant NON-merit aid, ie need-based. That makes Ivies an attractive option for a lot of people. In some cases Harvard may be more affordable than an in state public.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 17:44
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is how I read the research:
1. If you have a choice of a Tier 1 school vs a Tier 2/3 school with merit aid, it does not make sense to go to a Tier 1 school.
2. If you think your life is going to be "better" if you make $186k/yr vs. $135K/yr you have more problems than an elite graduate degree can solve.
I totally agree. At that level of income, $50k is not a deal breaker in the quality of life.
Depends. Elites give excellent merit aid, so for many it may be worth it. Besides, $50k isn't just $50k, it's $50k *a year*, plus interest if you can save it. I'm not good with numbers, but that seems like a lot, over time.
The Ivies, MIT, and elites like Amherst do NOT give any merit aid. What are you talking about?
Anonymous
05/02/2017 17:36
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here is how I read the research:
1. If you have a choice of a Tier 1 school vs a Tier 2/3 school with merit aid, it does not make sense to go to a Tier 1 school.
2. If you think your life is going to be "better" if you make $186k/yr vs. $135K/yr you have more problems than an elite graduate degree can solve.
I totally agree. At that level of income, $50k is not a deal breaker in the quality of life.
Depends. Elites give excellent merit aid, so for many it may be worth it. Besides, $50k isn't just $50k, it's $50k *a year*, plus interest if you can save it. I'm not good with numbers, but that seems like a lot, over time.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 16:59
Subject: Re:Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:Here is how I read the research:
1. If you have a choice of a Tier 1 school vs a Tier 2/3 school with merit aid, it does not make sense to go to a Tier 1 school.
2. If you think your life is going to be "better" if you make $186k/yr vs. $135K/yr you have more problems than an elite graduate degree can solve.
I totally agree. At that level of income, $50k is not a deal breaker in the quality of life.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 16:49
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:No, I'm not OP but I went to a third tier state university and kid went to Ivy. Especially for women and minorities, they should go to the best schools they can get in, because they are already behind the 8 ball by not being white men
Well DUH? Of course women and minorities should go to the best school they can. FFS. It has nothing to do with WILL to go to better schools. These groups don't have the economic advantage in many cases to do expensive test prep and ECs to get there.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 16:41
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:If the guy making 180,000 graduates with 4-500 K in debt, and the guy making 130,000 has no debt, then we could argue that he's actually the smarter guy who took the right deal, regardless of what his diploma says.
Agreed. Actually the person making $130K with no debt is ahead. The person with $180K is paying more in taxes and has about $5K per month in student loan payments. They will have a lower take home pay than the person who took no loans and makes less money. And they'll be paying those loans for 10+ years.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 16:30
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
To say that "it doesn't matter where you go to school" is objectively idiotic. "So and so went tier 4 and is a law partner!" People need to brush up on logical reasoning skills. Ever hear of a small sample size?
And people not wanting to "struggle and persevere" leads to a "dependence on prestige"? So people choose Ivy over Tailgate State because they're too scared to go to Tailgate State so they can fight the good fight against those Ivy Leaguers?
If I end up applying to an MBA program, I'll make sure I only apply to average schools just to make it harder on myself. Also, by virtue of saying that people "struggle" going to these schools, you realize that you're admitting I'm right? I'm going to assume you don't. Enjoy attending the University of Phoenix.
And people not wanting to "struggle and persevere" leads to a "dependence on prestige"? So people choose Ivy over Tailgate State because they're too scared to go to Tailgate State so they can fight the good fight against those Ivy Leaguers?
If I end up applying to an MBA program, I'll make sure I only apply to average schools just to make it harder on myself. Also, by virtue of saying that people "struggle" going to these schools, you realize that you're admitting I'm right? I'm going to assume you don't. Enjoy attending the University of Phoenix.
Anonymous
05/02/2017 16:27
Subject: Mythbuster: "It doesn't matter where you do undergrad, only MA-JD-MBA-MD matter"
Anonymous wrote:I went to a SLAC that was ranked around 9-10 back then (now in top 5 but still not considered top tier by many). Two kids from my small class of 400 went on to HLS and clerk for supreme court justices. So, take that!
Take what? Top 10 SLAC is tier 1.