Anonymous
05/04/2017 05:27
Subject: Re:Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is this devolving into an argument about the use of H1B in the tech sector? OP is talking about teachers - we have a dearth of them especially in the STEM fields. STEM teachers get paid a lot more than other subjects, especially in challenging schools.
Some school districts have such a teacher shortage problem that they are giving out emergency certifications, and I bet you many of such teachers aren't fully qualified to teach in STEM subjects.
The purpose of H1s work visa is to fill gaps/shortages in the workforce. We have a shortage of qualified STEM teachers. Unless you are willing to raise your taxes to offer better pay to more qualified STEM teachers, your options are either to hire a foreigner or just live with subar STEM teachers. Or I guess you could home school.
How many of you would encourage your HS aged DCs to major in STEM to teach in public school?
No, they don't. I teach algebra in a title 1 middle school. I make the same amount as my friend who teaches English in a wealthy middle school 5 miles away. It's based entirely on years of service and degree level (Bachelors/masters/PhD).
I will tell you why my math major classmates didn't go into public education: Money + career growth. Being a teacher is an odd job, as it is so stagnant. The only way to get a promotion is to leave the classroom. Otherwise, it's more work for zero pay increase. Here, be the team lead or the department chair. More after school meetings, zero money. My classmates with lower GPAs than my own (same major) are making at least 2-3 times what I make based on what I can find on glassdoor, etc. If parents want those people in the school system, you need to compensate them in order to lure them away from jobs that can actually pay off student loans.
There is no shortage of people in this country who understand math and are capable/qualified to teach it. There IS a shortage of people who want to teach it. How can you make it desirable? $48k starting salary isn't enough, when recruiters are flashing $75k for other offers.
So teaching is not a profession Math majors want to get into and there are better jobs out there for them. That seems to make Math teachers a perfect job for well-qualified H1B visa holders that are happily willing to work for the current lower pay. Why not use them then? Being a Math teacher at current pay is beneath US citizens. Lets get some H1B visa holders and that way we are meeting a requirement and keeping the job in the country so that they are paying taxes here. These are the kinds of people we want immigrating to the country anyways - well educated and qualified. Our country does not spend any money in raising and educating them and we get the benefit of fully educated human resources.
Anonymous
05/03/2017 22:41
Subject: Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?
as long as they speak English well and the average student can understand their speaking, yes.
Anonymous
05/03/2017 21:49
Subject: Re:Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
U.S. tech companies love the H-1B visa program. The temporary visa is meant to allow them to bring high-skill foreign workers to fill jobs for which there aren’t enough skilled American workers. But the program isn’t working. Originally intended to bring the best global talent to fill U.S. labor shortages, it has become a pipeline for a few big companies to hire cheap labor.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/tech-careers/four-ways-to-tackle-h1b-visa-reform
U.S. companies like hiring H-1B workers for a simple reason: they are cheaper than American workers. Law states that companies can set an H-1B worker’s wage based on the job, geographic location, and one of four skill levels. So companies can, and routinely do, define an H-1B hire’s position at the lowest skill level, meant for beginners or trainees.
The Level 1 wage for a computer systems analyst in Pittsburgh, for instance, is around US $49,000, while the Level 3, or average, wage is about $81,000 according to the Foreign Labor Certification Data Center. So a company can legally get away with paying foreign workers $30,000, or about 40 percent less than their American counterparts. There have been cases where employers have paid roughly half of the average wage for a particular position. “About 40 percent of all H-1B applications are at Level 1 now, and another 40 percent are at Level 2,” says Hira.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/at-work/tech-careers/four-ways-to-tackle-h1b-visa-reform
U.S. companies like hiring H-1B workers for a simple reason: they are cheaper than American workers. Law states that companies can set an H-1B worker’s wage based on the job, geographic location, and one of four skill levels. So companies can, and routinely do, define an H-1B hire’s position at the lowest skill level, meant for beginners or trainees.
The Level 1 wage for a computer systems analyst in Pittsburgh, for instance, is around US $49,000, while the Level 3, or average, wage is about $81,000 according to the Foreign Labor Certification Data Center. So a company can legally get away with paying foreign workers $30,000, or about 40 percent less than their American counterparts. There have been cases where employers have paid roughly half of the average wage for a particular position. “About 40 percent of all H-1B applications are at Level 1 now, and another 40 percent are at Level 2,” says Hira.
Anonymous
05/03/2017 21:38
Subject: Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Since MCPS has a chronic problem with an acute shortage of quality teachers in almost all subjects but specifically Maths, Science and Foreign Language, we should think about using H1B visa program to get qualified teachers to fill the gaps. What do you think? World class teachers or not?
Re “How ‘Hire American’ Could Affect a World of Tech Workers” (news article, April 19):
The problem with the H-1B visa program is that it depresses the price of tech jobs, which in turn lowers the desirability for tech jobs and the incentive for American students to seek math and science education.
This would be true to some extent even if the system weren’t abused, but The New York Times and other outlets have shown that employment companies are gaming the lottery system and being used not just to fill a critical opening but also to replace entire departments of citizens who are already working.
The invisible hand is supposed to respond to a shortage by raising the price. Bringing in substitute labor from foreign countries lowers the price. I don’t know what President Trump has in mind, but if companies are allowed to lower the price of tech jobs, the American work force will continue its decline as a leader in math and science.
Agree completely.
And I believe this is true for both legal and illegal immigration. The reason illegal immigration continues is because companies get to pay people less for the same job and workers still take the job. If there were no workers taking these jobs, wages would go up.
Same thing applies here. If we rely on H1Bs, conditions worsen for qualified candidates here in the IS. I have family who has come here on H1B visas. They work more hours and for lower pay than citizens would accept, simply just to have the chance to come to this country. Understandable, but not great for IS workers.
I agree, that H1b needs reform. Raising the wages, may raise the overall standard of living. But given that the US, is a global economy, it will not make us economically viable. The situation will end up being worse, with companies not being able to compete. Double edged sword. Prices should be driven by market economics. Unless Americans are willing to compete at global wages, companies will find ways to outsource. There are so many avenues to do that. And the wages/taxes won't even be spent here
Curious as to who is spreading rumors that H1B actually gets paid lower. Did you know that the offered salary needs to go through DOL and they have to ensure that these potential candidates are paid at a market rate? If they don't then DOL will not approve the application and the employer will need to revise to ensure market rate is given. If people are saying that H1B is still paid lower after this process then something is wrong with DOL. Does anyone actually have additional information on how they found out that H1B employees are paid less?
it is not rumor. it is fact. don't believe the corporate propaganda from facebook and zuckerberg. It gets complicated but there is not one prevailing wage, there are 4 and they are based on title. so the companies game the system by chosing the cheapest level and the cheapest title, which means they are hiring the lowest skilled labor they can get. The H1B has NOTHING to do with best and brightest. It is focused on providing the cheapest and desperate.
John Miano has written a book on this. He used to be a developer but is now a lawyer. see - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sold_Out_(book)
it continues to amaze me that there are still people that believe the H1B is about importing the best and brightest.
The average wage that Axxess would have to pay on the open job market for these workers would is $101,566. Yet the average wage for these 13 positions is just $79,644.54. Only one of the 13 positions is for slightly more ($105,000.00) than the average wage for occupation in the Dallas area. By going H-1B, Axxess saves $21,921.46 a year per worker.
This is all legal thanks to Congress and its four-tier, skill-based "prevailing wage" system. Axxess has classified seven of the 13 workers at the lowest skill level where the "prevailing wage" is the 17th percentile and the other six at the next skill level where the prevailing wage is the 34th percentile. By classifying these aliens as low-skilled, Access saves a bundle.
http://cis.org/miano/how-employers-game-h-1b-cheap-labor
Anonymous
05/03/2017 14:05
Subject: Re:Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
Anonymous wrote:People are also overlooking that currently Maryland is rated 49th for teacher autonomy. Good teachers cannot create their own lessons in many subjects. They are forced to teach exactly alike following the curriculum decided upon/edited by people who don't understand the subjects and haven't been inside a classroom.
I have looked at the curriculum. The curriculum is freakin fantastic. The teaching is subpar. Tell me one subject and grade and I will give you the curriculum that is on MCPS website.
How about "English" in 6th grade? Here is the first unit. I can guarantee your kid is not being taught this curriculum. http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/curriculum/english/middle/grade6/6.1%20Guide%20for%20Website.pdf
Here is the curriculum page. Now we need teachers who had the benefit of a good education in their own country to teach here.
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/curriculum/
Anonymous
05/03/2017 12:19
Subject: Re:Should we hire qualified teachers from other countries using H1B visas?
People are also overlooking that currently Maryland is rated 49th for teacher autonomy. Good teachers cannot create their own lessons in many subjects. They are forced to teach exactly alike following the curriculum decided upon/edited by people who don't understand the subjects and haven't been inside a classroom.