Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

I've read a lot of crazy stuff on DCUM but this is one of the craziest.

OP, you're right. Also, to build your case, even if the relationship with the kids is okay now, it won't be as soon as those kids start having opinions. A lot of awful people have great relationships with young children because those kids feed their narcissism and don't challenge them, but as soon as they start having opinions, the nasty person turns on them too. Don't put your kids through that.

I think if you define it in terms of the grandparents' "rights," it's much easier to say no and not look back.

But you need to think about your child's right: to have a relationship with someone who will treat her well (if the person in question is capable of that) or to be protected from someone who is just a miserable jerk to everyone.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Let me get this straight. If someone hated you, you would still send your kids to them?

Yes, because that "someone" is your kids' grandma.

Disagree. My parents and ILs do not have rights to my children, nor are they entitled to a relationship if they treat me or DH badly. It's a privilege you give to family and friends that aren't potentially (likely) harmful to your kids.

How do you define "badly", with an example.

I'm the PP who said grandparents do not have rights or entitlements to relationships with their grandchildren. My DC has a great relationship with her paternal grandmother (who lives with us and is incredibly caring and very helpful) and her maternal grandfather (my dad) and my siblings, who make the effort to Skype and visit regularly despite living far away. My mother is not a bad person nor a bad grandmother but my DC doesn't really know who she is because she puts in little effort and rarely visits. So in my case, it's not a problem. I just don't believe in grandparents' "rights" to kids. My DH is estranged from his father, who lives in a different country, and I cannot imagine he'd ever want him to have a relationship with our DC. And I'd never try to insist on it. I don't know his father; he does.

But all these other cases where people are talking about verbal, emotional, even physical abuse? If my parents did that to me, there is no way in hell I'd let them around my kid on a regular basis or foster a close relationship. Why would you expose your kid to toxicity like insulting comments ("don't eat that cookie or you'll be fat like your mom")? Hell to the no. I WAS abused as a child, not by a family member, but if it had been a family member you better believe they'd get nowhere even close to my kid. Just thinking about it makes my heart pound.

I think that the OP is the only one who is able to tell whether this relationship can or should be compartmentalized.

My husband had a terrible relationship with his mom growing up. She was verbally and emotionally abusive to him, with the result that he ended up moving out when he was a little shy of 17 and barely communicated with her for many years. To this day, he has a hard time being around her, because his experience with has historically been pretty fraught with emotional baggage. She is, however, a fantastic grandmother to our daughters, and even though his relationship with her isn't great, he is proud of being able to set that aside enough that she gets to be an awesome grandma.

But his issues with her are in the past. If she was being verbally and emotionally abusive now, neither one of us would be interested in being around her, regardless of what a great grandma she might hypothetically be. At the end of the day, it is the business of the adult child to decide what relationship their parents have with their children. Some situations are either so severe or so on-going that they preclude a relationship right now.

I'm one of the posters advocating for compartmentalizing relationships (and I don't think any of us are faulting people who can't make it work; we're just saying SOMETIMES it's possible), and I would say it's pretty terrible not to call kids by their names. I don't know a lot of kids who wouldn't care, especially if it's clear the reason is that Gramma is a spiteful, sulky cow.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

I disagree.
In my situation, my mother is full of venom and spite for my father, they are divorced, and will do things like visibly recoil and turn up her lip at a gift my kids are playing with after asking my 4 year old "where did you get that?" and refusing to call my son by his double name because the second name is my fathers middle name. She will do things like ask me "oh, are you having a second piece" as a jab at my (post baby) weight, and sigh heavily when I tell I am working the next day and say "so sad."

Are these things directly horrible to my children at 4 and 6? Maybe not, but as they grow and learn what the eye rolls, sighs, underhanded comments mean, and potentially become victims themselves as they have a stronger relationship with their own grandfather, which I have been essentially punished with my whole life.

So not quite so black and white a short many posters who are not in these unique and complicated situations make it seem. FWIW I am a poster who maintains a relationship but has strong boundaries and significantly limited interactions, but finds no fault in people that can't make that work.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

But don't you see how predictive it is? A parent who has a toxic relationship with their own adult child is not going to have a healthy relationship with their grandchild. It just doesn't work that way.

But it's not always predictive. As someone noted earlier, some people (my aunt, for example) always got along great with kids. We adored her. But she was horrible to adults.

'sn

No, of course it's not. No one has a crystal ball and can tell how someone will act. BUT, when it comes to children, we need to err on the side of caution. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. It's not a guarantee, but it is a good predictor that a parent cannot ignore when determining who has access to her children. You might be comfortable and want to give folks a chance. But OP and most here, including myself, don't see our children as experiments to test whether a toxic relative can behave.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Let me get this straight. If someone hated you, you would still send your kids to them?

Insane PP. no, op you are doing it right. Your mom doesn't get to openly treat you like crap and get to have a relationship with her grandkids.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

But don't you see how predictive it is? A parent who has a toxic relationship with their own adult child is not going to have a healthy relationship with their grandchild. It just doesn't work that way.

But it's not always predictive. As someone noted earlier, some people (my aunt, for example) always got along great with kids. We adored her. But she was horrible to adults.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

But don't you see how predictive it is? A parent who has a toxic relationship with their own adult child is not going to have a healthy relationship with their grandchild. It just doesn't work that way.

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Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

When a parents (or other relative) is an asshole to you, it is really hard to compartmentalize that relationship from the one the relative has with your kids, but taking care not to make it All about You is what grownups do, no matter how hard it is.

Divorced parents have to do this all the time.

And keeping an eye out for the bolded is key (and also exhausting).

Hugs to everyone who's managing this.

Anonymous wrote:Nope. Unless she's abusive to the kids (and she may very well be), theirs is a separate relationship from yours. I wouldn't deny my kids a relationship with their grandparents solely because the grandparent is mean to me. Only if their own unique relationship is toxic.

Agree with this. My grandmother was pretty awful to my mom (her daughter) and she was also abusive to me and my brother (lashed out at us, sent us nasty letters to 'get back' at my mom, was manipulative). My mom should have been more protective than she was. But it's that situation that warrants keeping your kids from your mother.

So I have a perspective both as a kid who had no contact with my grandfather because my dad cut him off and also now a parent who ironically is not speaking to my dad and his wife.

When it comes to being the kid, I honestly didn't really care about not knowing my grandfather. I had amazing grandparents (my mom's parents) who I saw everyday. I just never felt like I missed anything and on the rare occasion even as an adult when I saw my grandfather (a family funeral, etc..) I felt uncomfortable around him and simply preferred not to interact.

Now my dad and his wife have become abusive towards me. They are heavy drinkers and pill poppers and also are simply pathological liars living in their own fantasy of what they want to believe their lives are versus reality. I moved back home after having kids and they were initially very involved in our lives but after a number of fights and abusive manipulative behavior I started going to therapy and invited them to join me. They refused to go and I am done trying to fix things or simply sweep the blow ups under the rug much like I did most of my life with them.

My dad has a pattern of cutting people from his life unless they see everything his way. I simply can't do it anymore and don't want to set my kids up to be hugely disappointed and hurt by him like everyone else in his life.

Of course now my stepmother is spread a rumor to my brother that they will sue me for grandparents rights. It's unbelievably hurtful and shocking that my own parent could care so little about my well being and yet think I am going to drop off my toddler and Kindergartner whenever it's convenient for him.

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Anonymous wrote:My mil is borderline and does similar things. She gave 7yo ds a cellphone for Christmas so he could call her directly. He was so disappointed because he thought the box was a Lego set. Needless to say, we put the phone away.

She will use your children to push your buttons.

Did you post about this before? If not, there's another grandmother out there who tried the same thing! I'm laughing about the disappointment that it wasn't Legos.

I posted when it happenned because I was so shocked. Yes, the Lego thing was funny - he was genuinely upset! We just put the phone on a shelf and mil hasn't mentioned it yet.