Anonymous wrote:Children are not the equal of adults and should never call an adult by their first name. I brought up my children as I had been brought up to say ma'am and sir. Manners are important.

Yes but in this case MIL is correcting her DIL when she doesn't end every sentence with mam. That is incredibly rude on the MILs part. I'm not even going to get started on the inappropriateness of correcting your son's and DILs parenting. That is beyond bad manners, it's controlling and obnoxious.

I don't say "Yes/No Ma'am/Sir" to my ILs or parents now that I am an adult, but did when I was younger. I don't call my ILs their first names... I call them Nana/Papa mostly in context of the kids ("Hi Nana! Lala wanted to speak to you, here she is.") My kids say "yes/no sir/ma'am" and I think it's rude to say things like yeah/sure/ok etc to adults.

FWIW I was raised in GA... both DH's family and mine are still there, so it's just a cultural thing I guess.

Children are not the equal of adults and should never call an adult by their first name. I brought up my children as I had been brought up to say ma'am and sir. Manners are important.

Wow, it seems like you have an issue that's bigger than just the question of whether kids should be taught to say ma'am/sir. Personally, I think it's reasonable to have children do that and we raised our kids to do so unless a specific adult notes a preference to be addressed with less formality. Our kids did say "yes ma'am/sir" from pretty much as soon as they could speak, because we never presented anything else as an option. It wasn't (or, didn't seem to me) particularly strict, it was just how life worked; yes and no are rarely if ever stand-alone sentences in our house because to us it just seems curt and a bit rude to not tack something else on the end -- an honorific, please/thank you, or a slight elaboration to make a longer sentence. That's just a quirk of our family, though, not something we would dream to impose as a requirement of others.

However, your in-laws seem rigid, overly controlling, and frankly, rude. It is exceptionally poor manners to try to make anyone else feel noticeably inferior (which seems to be what they're doing with the way they speak to you and expect you to speak to them: creating a verbal hierarchy in which you're expected to consider yourself subordinate and deferential). It is also poor manners to correct or call attention to other people's perceived lapses in manners. Within a family this standard isn't absolute -- sometimes it can make sense for grandparents and other relatives to correct or instruct kids other than their own -- but if the parents are present it's pretty inappropriate for anyone else to intervene in anything but a pressing safety concern or to go against what the parents have indicated. Your in-laws seem to be more invested in seeming formal and well-mannered, or in being treated as social superiors, than in actually conducting themselves with decent manners.

You and your DH need to be on the same page regarding how YOU as the parents want to teach your kids to interact with the grandparents, and how it is okay for the grandparents to treat you. Then DH needs to be the one to set boundaries and mean them. His parents, primarily his responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never said, "yes ma'am" and won't teach my kids to say it. I think saying "yes" and "no" is fine. I only see southerners and black people speaking like that.

I can tell from this last sentence that you're clueless and ignorant.

Not the PP but how do you feel that is inaccurate? I would add people with military connections to that list as well. in 2017 you are not going to hear a WASPy family from Connecticut saying this at all.

You just proved my point. PP said they ONLY see southerners and black people speaking like that.

And you know his/her tone was judgy. Don't be obtuse.

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one confused that OP mentions that these people are raging racists in passing, but posts impassioned rants for hours about the no sir / yes ma'am issue? I mean, they don't sound like they're pleasant to be around, but please reorder your priorities. If you want to finally stand up to them, maybe you have bigger fish to fry than "MIL wants DS to call her ma'am."

I'm wondering if the racist bit doesn't really bug OP that much since it doesn't impact her but the "manners" bit does impact her so it bothers her.

Am I the only one confused that OP mentions that these people are raging racists in passing, but posts impassioned rants for hours about the no sir / yes ma'am issue? I mean, they don't sound like they're pleasant to be around, but please reorder your priorities. If you want to finally stand up to them, maybe you have bigger fish to fry than "MIL wants DS to call her ma'am."

OP, I missed the part about the racism. How close are these people to you physically? How often are you expected to see them?

I would not spend any time with rude, racist people. People who correct you or your children in front of you are rude.

I would not feel comfortable spending informal time with people who insisted I call them Mr and Mrs. AT most, I would agree to do specified, time-limited things like going out to dinner without the grandkids. Tell them you just don't feel comfortable around them, and you don't feel comfortable with how they want the kids to talk to them. They can hang out with their other, speech delayed grandkids if they want. But your kids will hang out with the more comfortable, non racist friends and family members.

OP, I would limit your children's time around your in-laws. I would travel to visit only once a year, and only for a short amount of time (staying at a nearby hotel -- make up some excuse why) to limit contact with the crazy.

I would explain to your in-laws that you do not require your children to answer with "yes ma'am" all the time, as long as they are polite. If your inlaws have a problem with that, you don't need to bring the children around them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never said, "yes ma'am" and won't teach my kids to say it. I think saying "yes" and "no" is fine. I only see southerners and black people speaking like that.

I can tell from this last sentence that you're clueless and ignorant.

Not the PP but how do you feel that is inaccurate? I would add people with military connections to that list as well. in 2017 you are not going to hear a WASPy family from Connecticut saying this at all.

Anonymous wrote:I've never said, "yes ma'am" and won't teach my kids to say it. I think saying "yes" and "no" is fine. I only see southerners and black people speaking like that.

I can tell from this last sentence that you're clueless and ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:I am from the south and OP's inlaws sound incredibly rigid.

I would work with your kids and teach them to say "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to their grandparents and to most adults. It might take them a while, but work with them. Some older southerners do expect this, especially from anyone younger (including children and grandchildren.)

I would also call the inlaws what they want to be called, whether that is Mr. and Mrs. Jones, or Miss Larla. Lots of older people are called Miss Larla or Mr. Larlo, as well as people who work with younger children. Not sure why, they just are.

The MIL rephrasing what you have just told her to a "more polite version" is impolite in and of itself. Not sure what you can do about that, she needs to respect you as well.

It sounds to me like your inlaws have real control issues, have to maintain the upper hand at all times, and that they are wrapping themselves up in southern manners to do so.

it's best if your kids do learn "yes ma'am" "yes sir" at an early age, because it will be more automatic later. And, calling the inlaws what they want to be called. Any other rephrasing requests from you or the kids are bogus and insulting.

So basically OP should be pushed around by her inlaws?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have any number of options, but I would choose one of these two:

"At Grandma and Grandpa's house, we try to say 'yes, ma'am' and 'yes, sir.' It makes them happy."

Or, you get DH to come right out and explain to them that you are not requiring your children to say it, and that you two won't be enforcing it.

Agree with this. And quite frankly, I severely limit the time my kids spend with anyone I know to be a racist.

Racist? Where did that come from? Although I believe in limiting their time with people that don't respect their parenting.

From the OP:

But my MIL is a raging racist (I think it is very hard for her that DS' besties are Asian, Black and Latino and that we live in a diverse community and have diverse friends. She is used to only WASPy friends despite being highly educated and well traveled (over 200 countries!)).

Oops! Missed that. I wish I didn't. I wouldn't want my children around that type of mentality. Kids so easily pick up things. My best friend has inlaws who's belief system is very different from their own and she constant is having to get ideas out of her kids heads. She is now no longer allowing them to spend time there for visits without her or her husband.

I am from the south and OP's inlaws sound incredibly rigid.

I would work with your kids and teach them to say "yes sir" and "yes ma'am" to their grandparents and to most adults. It might take them a while, but work with them. Some older southerners do expect this, especially from anyone younger (including children and grandchildren.)

I would also call the inlaws what they want to be called, whether that is Mr. and Mrs. Jones, or Miss Larla. Lots of older people are called Miss Larla or Mr. Larlo, as well as people who work with younger children. Not sure why, they just are.

The MIL rephrasing what you have just told her to a "more polite version" is impolite in and of itself. Not sure what you can do about that, she needs to respect you as well.

It sounds to me like your inlaws have real control issues, have to maintain the upper hand at all times, and that they are wrapping themselves up in southern manners to do so.

it's best if your kids do learn "yes ma'am" "yes sir" at an early age, because it will be more automatic later. And, calling the inlaws what they want to be called. Any other rephrasing requests from you or the kids are bogus and insulting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I don't think you realize how often they want them to say it. Like say you asked a question: Timmy do you want an apple?
My DS might say "please I would like an apple, Grandmommy (that is how he speaks at three)"
My MIL will say "yes, ma'am"
DS walks around saying "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full! yes ma'am! and laughing"
So it isn't like my son isn't being polite.
Say I'm washing fruit and my MIL asks me how I want to cut it. I'll say "I'm cutting the fruit like X"
She will correct me, "ma'am please cut the fruit like this"
my husband NEVER calls his mom or dad "mom/dad" it is always militaristic and very formal, "sir/ma'am". And they are not a military family and FIL is from Philly.

We get it, lady. Your IL's are polite and you (and your DS) are not.

Actually, it sounds like her ILs are incredibly rude. Insisting that a grown adult family member call you sir/mam every time they speak and use Mr./Mrs. is weird on top of being bad manners. Trying to override the mom and dad's parenting decisions is also incredibly rude and disrespectful.

+1

I can only assume PPs who think your ILs are uber polite didn't take the time to carefully read this specific post from OP. Correcting a grown woman to insist that she call her MIL "ma'am" is so unbelievably rude.