Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is pushing 3.5 and still not potty trained. He is the only one in his preschool class still in diapers.

Yes, it is a parental failing and nothing more. We really screwed up on this in not training him earlier. Now that he is 3 years and 4 months, he is simply defiant and has no problem walking around in wet pants.

Do you actually put him in DIAPERS and not pull ups? I'm so confused about people using those terms interchangeably here.

OMG. Yes, they're the same. Just the waistband is different.

I didn't start training until my kids were about 2.5 because I didn't want to spend 6 months doing it, like I saw other parents dealing with. Both were trained over a long weekend, no accidents. High five to us. Also, who cares.

I would say 4 is the absolute oldest, but agree that around 3 is when they should be trained.. After that I would wonder about any kid )and their parents) still in diapers, unless they had special needs.

I mean, do we really want to talk about what's acceptable/unacceptable in terms of American vs. non-American toddlers and bathroom habits? Google "Chinese butt pants"--a practice that apparently exists (not saying it's common or even unique to China, before anyone gets offended, but it's out there) in which parents snip the back of their young toddler's pants to allow for easy pooping in the street while out and about. Do these children count as "potty trained"? Hey, at least they're not wearing pull ups.

A lot of Americans really truly seem to believe that kids aren't biologically ready until 2.5 at the minimum. I think we're supposed to blame Dr. Spock, but it's like a hindsight justification for changes wrought by moving to disposable diapers and like the PP said, not having standardized child care etc.

Anonymous wrote:3 for daytime.

Save special needs, I agree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Americans are generally the last in the world to potty train LOL All the kids I knew overseas were trained by 1.5 like clockwork. The fact that we waited till 2.5 horrified everybody.

Methinks by 3 it's high time. Our PK3 requires children to be fully trained.

Non- American.

This is bullshit.

I'm non-American and I call BS on that too. Pampers are everywhere. The only people who still train extra early are the ones who HAVE to use cloth diapers. Let's not lie about what it actually is.

LOL I have no idea where you're from, but from my experience, no one used cloth in the old country for like 40 years. (The environmental side of the issue is far less popular outside the U.S.) The cost is a factor, but it's not the main factor. The main reason is mothers have much better access to state-subsidized childcare. Despite generous (although basically unpaid) leave, many choose or need to return to work after about a year. Daycares universally train the children; it's a given, and there are no other options LOL All kids in the group have their breakfast, then get up and go sit on potties. Obviously, they have accidents, but generally speaking, this type of training in a group is highly effective. As I said, by 1.5 children are day trained (with accidents, of course).

^^This, too. What's acceptable is cultural and political, not just about people being forced in to things by poverty or whatever.

By 3 by daytime. Nighttime a few months later OK, but no more than 6-12 months max.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Americans are generally the last in the world to potty train LOL All the kids I knew overseas were trained by 1.5 like clockwork. The fact that we waited till 2.5 horrified everybody.

Methinks by 3 it's high time. Our PK3 requires children to be fully trained.

Non- American.

This is bullshit.

I'm non-American and I call BS on that too. Pampers are everywhere. The only people who still train extra early are the ones who HAVE to use cloth diapers. Let's not lie about what it actually is.

LOL I have no idea where you're from, but from my experience, no one used cloth in the old country for like 40 years. (The environmental side of the issue is far less popular outside the U.S.) The cost is a factor, but it's not the main factor. The main reason is mothers have much better access to state-subsidized childcare. Despite generous (although basically unpaid) leave, many choose or need to return to work after about a year. Daycares universally train the children; it's a given, and there are no other options LOL All kids in the group have their breakfast, then get up and go sit on potties. Obviously, they have accidents, but generally speaking, this type of training in a group is highly effective. As I said, by 1.5 children are day trained (with accidents, of course).

Anonymous wrote:By age 2.5 every child should be completely toilet trained. No excuses. Absolutely disgusting to see a 3 yr old in diapers. Lazy parents.

My child was trained over a year before your hard deadline, and I still find this post ridiculous.

By age 2.5 every child should be completely toilet trained. No excuses. Absolutely disgusting to see a 3 yr old in diapers. Lazy parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Americans are generally the last in the world to potty train LOL All the kids I knew overseas were trained by 1.5 like clockwork. The fact that we waited till 2.5 horrified everybody.

Methinks by 3 it's high time. Our PK3 requires children to be fully trained.

Non- American.

This is bullshit.

American with lots of non-American family, and no, it's not BS... but it depends on what kind of "non-American" we're talking about. Perhaps Americans aren't the very last in the world to train, but they are later than most of the world's population. Is this because they "have to" train early because they use cloth? Maybe. It's related. But more generally, it is a social/cultural thing.

That's the crux of the OP.

What does "unacceptable" mean? What it really means is "what is socially unacceptable in your culture or community."

Because it's not so much biological, as we can see in many cultures and historically, where kids tend to be done or mostly done PT by, yeah-- about 1.5 in most cases. My grandparents (born in the 20s) are appalled at any kid still using diapers after their 2nd birthday-- latest. My non-American family born in the 60s-80s allow up to maybe 2.5 before they think it's totally unacceptable. But my American contemporaries don't start batting an eye until about 3.25 or 3.5, and don't really draw the line until 4.

So, if you're asking in a mostly white American context in 2017, especially in a middle class+ context? And including pullups, really meaning "not in underwear?" Then yeah, I'd say for kids without special needs, it starts becoming socially unacceptable around 3.5. But there's nothing universal or immutable about that.

Nor, really, is it anyone's business.

Anything over 3 is too old IMO, assuming the kid doesn't have any REAL developmental issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Americans are generally the last in the world to potty train LOL All the kids I knew overseas were trained by 1.5 like clockwork. The fact that we waited till 2.5 horrified everybody.

Methinks by 3 it's high time. Our PK3 requires children to be fully trained.

Non- American.

This is bullshit.

I'm non-American and I call BS on that too. Pampers are everywhere. The only people who still train extra early are the ones who HAVE to use cloth diapers. Let's not lie about what it actually is.

Funny story about how Pull Ups are marketed. My DD was out of diapers and potty trained at just over a year old. My grandmother thought this was awesome, saw her use the toilet, etc., very supportive. When my DD was about 2 or 2.5, grandmother sees a commercial for Pull Ups and is asking me, why don't I get DD some of those, since she's a "big girl" now? I was dumbfounded-- you know DD's been in regular cotton underwear for a year+, during which time she had maybe 5 total accidents. She's fully potty trained. So...? Turns out my grandmother saw 2 and 3 year olds on TV and figured that Pull Ups were something useful for all kids of 2-3... somehow. I had to explain that they are literally larger size disposable diapers that fit more like underwear, that's it. She hadn't understood this because, to her mind, why would a kid over 2 or so not be potty trained yet?