Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:57     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Because TBFTGOGGI.

You never know where life takes you, even when everything is planned. This rights for women need to be there in case it is needed. No one wants to need it.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:57     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.


Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.


Where are the pro-lifers pushing for welfare benefits? Adopting foster children? Other services that help children?

And "frivolous" is arbitrary. It's a decision for the woman and her doctor. Your opinion doesn't matter.


Not saying that all pro-lifers follow all these points, but I cannot understand how someone can believe the following:

1. No birth control. Conflicts with our role in public vs private.
2. No abortions. I believe it is against my faith and no one else should be able to do it.
3. No public support/welfare. Costs too much money to the tax payer and these parents should make their own decisions.
4. No abandoning kids and single parent homes. Horrible parenting.
5. These children are hoodlums that are threats to society.
6. Wash, rinse, repeat.

This administration has introduced policy to define life at the point of FERTILIZATION. That is basically trying to overturn Roe v Wade.
FWIW, I am a believer in God and Christ.


Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:54     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.


Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.


You don't get to decide what is frivolous in someone else's life. I've never been in a situation that I felt required an abortion. I would never presume, though, to tell another woman that her circumstances are considered frivolous and therefore not worthy of her being able to make that decision for herself.

My former almost DIL did make that decision. As much as it hurt at the time, I can see now that it was the best decision. I cannot imagine the mess a few lives would be in if it hadn't been available to her.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:49     Subject: Re:Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:I totally agree with you- I think it should be available in cases of abnormalities, rape of a young child etc. . I think it is personal b/c

a) its been marketed to women that they carry and bring life so they should be at the forefront of protecting children born and unborn b) Most importantly a lot of people believe that a child within the womb is just as much a person as one outside the womb and it is murder to end that life in the same way that it is murder to throw an hours old infant in a trash dumpster. Logically they are completely correct and it is gross that abortion of a 4 month fetus is used as birth control to the extent that it is.

I also belong to a faith that says that the soul enters the fetus, not the embryo , so at the beginning of the 2nd trimester and that an embryo as well as an egg or sperm carry the potential for life but are not human. We also don't permit artificial insemination by a man other than one's husband or surrugacy so each faith has its own guidelines and these are very strong. I think that its good that women who begin life begins at conception follow through on that but I think that there has to be just as a push for the welfare of those children and mothers after birth as well and also universal coverage and access, in fact a push, for birth control for couples who will not be be able raise their children independently.




Not a marketing scheme. It is actually scientific fact. We carry life and bring it forth. I have yet to see any other way to do it.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:44     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.


Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.


Where are the pro-lifers pushing for welfare benefits? Adopting foster children? Other services that help children?

And "frivolous" is arbitrary. It's a decision for the woman and her doctor. Your opinion doesn't matter.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:42     Subject: Re:Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Also, until the US joins the rest of the civilized world and passes better family leave policies and anti-discrimination laws, women who are pregnant will continue to face discrimination in the workplace and many women will continue to have no paid maternity leave. Not to mention the ridiculous cost of daycare, which creates hardships for some women who need to provide for their families after the birth of a child. These are issues that are difficult even for those of us who have wanted pregnancies! Now imagine having to face these economic burdens as a pregnant, single, lower income woman. Unwanted pregnancies can have life-long financial consequences for women. The man who impregnated her doesn't have to worry about losing his job, or not having any paid time off to recover from giving birth. If our society actually valued children and working families, perhaps the abortion rate would go down because a surprise pregnancy wouldn't have such a lasting financial impact on women.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:41     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
The personal is political. Things aren't going to get better for all women unless we take every issue to heart, even the ones that don't directly affect us.

Basically, OP, your post reveals that you are concerned about your wellbeing as a woman, but not the wellbeing of all women. Time to step out of your tiny white bubble!
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:36     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
38yo pro-choice woman with two kids here. I'm fortunate to have never had a miscarriage or been in a position to want/need an abortion.

I consider abortion a very personal issue because:

1. I dislike the concept of government setting laws based on some people's religious convictions. One faith shouldn't make medical or financial decisions for everyone.

2. I think the "exceptions" for rape, incest and health bring many issues. Many rapes are unreported, or not prosecuted, or don't get a conviction. Who decides whether a given situation qualifies for the rape exception? Will a woman be permitted to abort as soon as she says she was raped, even if the accused rapist denies it? What about health issues, who is going to make the list of which health issues qualify for an abortion? Some health issues can be life-changing or a non-issue depending on the woman's personal situation. How much risk do you consider too much, and who gets to make that decision for other people? Will there have to be some legal process for the woman to apply for permission to abort, thereby delaying the abortion which we all agree is not desirable?

3. I live in Virginia, which had a mandatory ultrasound law. The idea that the government can force vaginal penetration against a woman's will is absolutely sickening to me. This is particularly disturbing if the woman was raped in the first place - way to subject a victim to ongoing torment.

4. I recognize that rape and health issues count for a minority of abortions, but I believe that safe and legal abortions absolutely must be available in those instances with a minimal burden on the woman - she's been through enough already. If there are too many hoops to jump through (legal authorization to get the procedure, sparcity of clinics able and willing to conduct it, cost, etc), then it will effectively be unavailable in even those most egregious cases.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:28     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are a wide variety of reasons why someone may choose abortion. That is a serious decision for that person and her doctor to make. Not me. And certainly not the government.

The thing that I don't get is why pro-lifers stop caring about that life after it's born.


Why do you think they don't care?

Also I said that I am okay with abortion for extremely unfortunate circumstances. If a pregnancy is not viable or a danger to the mother, that is okay and should be legal everywhere. My issue is with frivolous abortions.

WTF is a 'frivolous' abortion, pray tell?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:22     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?

I don't understand why anyone would want to deny abortions to women who are in physical or psychological danger from it, or to unborn children who would have a prolonged suffering.

Is it killing? Yes. Is it necessary sometimes? Absolutely.

And as a biologist, here's an additional point that most people don't want to think about. All safe surgeries require plenty of practice. That may be the most controversial point of all.


Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:17     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
I don't think anyone is like "yay, I'm having an abortion!"

Can we all have sympathy and understanding for whatever in these women's lives makes them feel like this is their best option? There but for the grace of God go I.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:13     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
It's personal for me because I've had 2 kids, one of whom was the result of a failed vasectomy, and I know what's required to be a good parent to these kids. If a woman knows she's not ready or not capable, it is cruel to her and the unborn child to make her go through with that pregnancy. I get really mad when people who didn't have really hard lives and have support and love and the means to provide for their wanted kids refuse to see or understand that that is NOT every woman's situation. Let them choose what's best for themselves.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:13     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:OP, if you are so pro-life, do you support widespread and thorough sex education in schools, and affordable and accessible birth control? Because unwanted pregnancies are the number one reason women have abortions, so if you can prevent those pregnancies, you can decrease the number of abortions. I find it incredulous that so many of my prolife friends do not support these measures, they only want abstinence teachings and think people should have more personal responsibility before they have sex. They don't want their insurance to pay for birth control! As if teenagers or college kids never were impulsive. As if you were never impulsive. As if you never made a mistake. Give me a break. There but for the grace of god go I. Trust other women to make their own choices.

And btw, I don't want my insurance paying for your cialis, viagra or obesity related treatment, because you couldn't "personally responsible" enough to get it up or keep from becoming fat. It's a rude thing to say isn't it? So is denying birth control.


I'll add:

Insurance shouldn't pay for your high cholesterol medication-- you should be personally responsible enough to manage your diet and exercise.

Insurance shouldn't pay for your lung/esophageal cancer treatments and hospital stays while your in 4th stage-- you should have been personally responsible enough to not smoke.

Insurance should not be paying for your blood pressure medication-- you should be personally responsible enough to learn how to relax, meditate, take deep breaths and not put yourself in high pressure environments.

Insurance should not be paying for your skin cancer treatment and yearly checks with the dermatologist-- you should be personally responsible enough to not lay out in the sun throughout your youth and be smart enough to use sunblock.

Where exactly will you draw the line? You want the taxpayers to subsidize your stupidity and carelessness? Swell.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:11     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
I don't plan on getting cancer, but if I do I want the right to make decisions about my treatment with my doctor.

Does that analogy help you understand?

Also, I've never been one to really on "luck" as a health care plan. In life, I find the more prepared I am the better the outcomes for my me and family.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2017 12:10     Subject: Why is abortion such a personal issue for most women?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think that the reason that it's personal for so many women is that the language used to talk about it is ALWAYS personal. Pro-choice people try to have the conversation about medical privacy and body autonomy, and they are often countered - almost immediately - with anti-abortion people calling them murderers, lazy, irresponsible, immoral, etc. It's almost impossible to have a rational conversation with anyone on this issue, because the two sides end up being "Respect my right to make my own medical decisions" and "YOU ARE A MURDERER" right out of the gate.

I'm a 35yo mother who's had an abortion and several miscarriages. Prior to my first pregnancy, I was pro-choice in general, but strongly opposed to "late term abortions" because I believed (as many do) that women should have made their decisions earlier or been more responsible in the first place. I did not understand the reasons that women seek late term abortions. I did not understand the timing issues that come into play when you are talking about ruling out genetic abnormalities. I assumed (as many do) that those abortions were a result of women being in denial about being pregnant or unable to decide to abort earlier. I read a lot. I talked to people who had late term abortions about their experiences. In the end, my mind completely changed.

At this point, I am strongly in favor of unrestricted access to abortion, in conjunction with unrestricted access to birth control and comprehensive science-based sex education in schools. I think it would be really great if every teenager was offered some form of long-lasting birth control by their primary care doctor.

I don't want people to have abortions. I don't want people to get pregnant without meaning to get pregnant. I was on birth control when I got pregnant, and I was so, so grateful that abortion was available to me as a form of birth control when my primary method (very reliable, taken for years with no issue) failed. I do not want people skipping the primary method because they know they can just "take care of it" later if they need to, but I do want the option to be there, to be accessible, and to be affordable for all women who need it.


I completely agree with every point made in your very thoughtful post.

I'm sure there are some women out there who blithely get abortions. But it is far from the majority. OP and others seem to think that tons of women are out there having wild sex with abandon, never thinking of birth control, and then saying "oops, better get an abortion, but why bother doing it soon -- I'll just wait until 6 months." That's just not reality for most women. And I don't think the government or any other individual should be deciding what is a bona fide reason or a "frivolous" reason to get one. Most women understand the seriousness of this issue and treat it accordingly.


I just want to add on to PPs. I can see people saying, 'if we can prevent one frivolous abortion we should' but I would like to point out that as a society this is not how we work.

When Flint discovered they had lead in their pipes we didn't evacuate the entire town to potentially save the life/exposure of more children. The current refugee ban is saying that the risk of bringing in those people is not worth the benefit (ie, the fact that we would be saving their lives). We make hard decisions at a legislative level every single day (some I agree with and some I deeply disagree with) but at the end of the day the law is designed to make what it believes is the best decision for the most people that are being governed. And history has shown time and time again that outlawing abortion does not stop abortion, it simply makes it more dangerous and results in dead women AND dead fetuses. The best way to reduce abortion is to provide unrestricted access to birth control and prenatal services, have support systems set up for women who might become mothers unexpectedly and yes, provide easy access to safe abortion early in pregnancy. If those systems are in place, than the only people seeking late term abortions will be doing so for medical reasons and should also NOT face bureaucratic hurdles as they make that very difficult choice.