To be clear, the survey referred to above in the NY Times is the first national government one about sexuality including LGB youth in high schools. That is the survey that omitted any reference to being transgender.

Anonymous wrote: I 'm sorry, but WTF is going on with our society? I find this statistic startling and very concerning:

12 % of millennials said they identify as transgender or gender non-conforming. This is double the amount of Generation X-ers who say they same.

You can read about it here:
https://www.indy100.com/article/fifth-millennials-identify-survey-lgbtq-glaad-queer-7660741

All of these kids are NOT trans, but they are very confused. When did this happen? How did this happen?

Why isn't the press reporting on this? All I hear about are bathrooms, Jazz Jennings, and Bruce Jenner. This is the real story.

Sure, there is a story there about more youth identifying as gender non-conforming and it is worthy of good journalism. But with all due respect, there is much more out there publically than just bathrooms and Bruce Jenner in the media. The truth is that much has been reported for more than a decade -- and the straight, typically gendered (cisgendered) world largely ignored it until celebrities got involved. I wish it weren't the case, but that happens with so many other issues too. Here is the U.S. Department of Justice's web site on sexual violence against transgender people. https://www.ovc.gov/pubs/forge/sexual_numbers.html. The Southern Poverty Law Center did a piece on violence against trans people in Washington DC as far back as 2003 -- citing stories in the Washington Post. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/violence-engulfs-transgender-population-dc. The crisis was reported in the Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aj-walkley/2014-transgender-violence_b_5298554.html. If there hasn't been enough media on the problem it may be because there were no authoritative, government, national surveys. Indeed, the first such government survey about gay people was just recently conducted, and respondents had not option to indicate if they were transgender. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/12/health/gay-lesbian-teenagers-violence.html?_r=0 Who knows if that failure may have skewed the results of this survey. News stories indicate the first such government survey of trans people may take place in 2017.

The old adage, "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" comes to mind. There are real people out there folks who are suffering -- real kids -- and they have been long ignored. I don't like the media making being transgender into what seems to be the latest fad, it isn't. Even with increased acceptance, I still don't think one will find many boys long known to be such willing to put on a dress and march into junior high or high school day after day, year after year, because it seems "cool." And I would say the same about natal girls /trans boys. That is a rough road to travel -- even now.

I would say take a deep breath and relax. The key in the above survey is that they are mixing transgender and "gender nonconforming." The latter concept was something no one spoke about in those terms in the past, but has always been around. Don't mean to be crude, but the I suspect many young lesbian women of the "butch" variety or what we used to call effeminant men may now consider themselves gender non-conforming. And given how young people throw around concepts, I suspect many teens who see themselves as having both masculine and feminine traits - as no doubt many (if not most) people could identify if they thought about and articulated it - now say they identify as non-binary or gender non-conforming. I dated a girl 30 years ago who used to say in many ways she wished she were a boy and thought she had more in common with boys - but she certainly never actually elected to live as a boy. But today, if she were 19, she might call herself gender non-conforming. The statistic in the study that I didn't see is the break down of that 12 percent between trans and non-binary. The cultural explosion - and confusion - is more about the non-binary.

I note also that I previously read 22:22's post wrong. She wasn't arguing brain scans can be used to diagnose being trans, but she was arguing that they can be used to help rule it out. I'm not sure if the science is there yet either, but that is an important distinction I wanted to acknowledge.

I 'm sorry, but WTF is going on with our society? I find this statistic startling and very concerning:

12 % of millennials said they identify as transgender or gender non-conforming. This is double the amount of Generation X-ers who say they same.

You can read about it here:
https://www.indy100.com/article/fifth-millennials-identify-survey-lgbtq-glaad-queer-7660741

All of these kids are NOT trans, but they are very confused. When did this happen? How did this happen?

Why isn't the press reporting on this? All I hear about are bathrooms, Jazz Jennings, and Bruce Jenner. This is the real story.

I am very curious to know which doctor is using brain scans to determine transgender status. I would be very wary and stay away- because such a doctor would be a quack.

NO organization- not WPATH, not any mental health organization, not any psychological association, not any trans rights organization- recommends brain scans as a diagnostic criteria?

Why? Because it is a completely unreliable method.

Before even going into anything else, birth sex can only be correctly guessed from brain scans 70% of the time. It is in no way conclusive even for determining biological sex. For someone to attempt to diagnose transgender status from brain scans is quack science and frankly, dangerous.

I am not 22:22 but unless things have changes in the past year the brain scan science is not there yet generally for making a diagnosis - and for reasons not worth listing it may never alone be enough -- but will be helpful. But I thank 22:22 for reminding everyone on this thread that just because some teens may say something one day out of the blue or some professionals are not well trained, does not mean we should ignore the real problem for real transgender kids/teens who are benefiting - mostly -- from wider social acknowledgment if not always acceptance.

I would caution that in one way the stories on the videos are exceptions and not the rules. Many very young children who display interest in being the other gender do grow out of it - it is not usually - but can sometimes -- be indicative of more. What is hard is that some truly trans kids may seem "normal" in their early years in many ways and then changes begin to become more obvious -- in our kid's case certainly by about 8 -- maybe 7. But especially with natal females, it is sometimes harder to see the changes -- especially for parents --because of cultural acceptance of tomboys. My advice to other parents who have concerns for one reason or another is to treat this like researching anything else -- don't just talk to experts and read books, but also look at evidence yourself. You are a parent - a person -- you have some expertise in how boys and girls behave - even accepting a wide variation. How much evidence points one way and how much points another? Brain scans someday will help, but they won't decide what makes a man's brain or a women's brain -- only what are the most commmon patterns. At the end of the day, if a person feels to their core that they are the opposite gender of their biology and that they are miserable if unable to live that way, and they seem happier after socially transitioning , and there is no other evidence of schitzophrenia or other serious mental disorders, that's where you are going to end up. It is hard for a parent to tease it all out and be as sure as possible they are not making a mistake -- and in cultures where this was unthinkable and medical solutions unavailable -- it was perhaps easier for parents in some ways.

PP, can you tell me who does these kinds of brain scans to determine female or male brain. What exactly do they see as the differences between the two?

SHE IS NOT TRANSGENDER! I REPEAT, NOT TRANSGENDER. My son was born with a male brain and a vagina. He started saying "I'm not a girl, I'm a boy" at age 2. It has absolutely ruined his life and is not something for kids like your daughter to wear as a fashion statement. Ask yourself, would a boy wear a skirt? Ever? Especially not by his own CHOICE! I have tried to get my son in a dress and it just will NOT happen. Transgender boys will scream and cry at the sight of a skirt. If you want to prove to your daughter that she is not transgender, you can get her a brain scan which a neurosurgeon will then analyze and tell you that she indeed has a female brain. The definition of being transgender is the following: a child born with the brain of one sex and the body of another. It is a devastating birth defect that occurs when the fetus is on track to become one sex, in my son's case, male, and came out with the anatomy of a female. Your daughter clearly has both a female brain and a female body, meaning she is not transgender. She matches, there is no disconnect. If you want to watch news pieces done on young transgender boys like my son, youtube "Jacob LeMay" or "Ryland Whittington".

SHE IS NOT TRANSGENDER! I REPEAT, NOT TRANSGENDER. My son was born with a male brain and a vagina. He started saying "I'm not a girl, I'm a boy" at age 2. It has absolutely ruined his life and is not something for kids like your daughter to wear as a fashion statement. Ask yourself, would a boy wear a skirt? Ever? Especially not by his own CHOICE! I have tried to get my son in a dress and it just will NOT happen. Transgender boys will scream and cry at the sight of a skirt. If you want to prove to your daughter that she is not transgender, you can get her a brain scan which a neurosurgeon will then analyze and tell you that she indeed has a female brain. The definition of being transgender is the following: a child born with the brain of one sex and the body of another. It is a devastating birth defect that occurs when the fetus is on track to become one sex, in my son's case, male, and came out with the anatomy of a female. Your daughter clearly has both a female brain and a female body, meaning she is not transgender. She matches, there is no disconnect. If you want to watch news pieces done on young transgender boys like my son, youtube "Jacob LeMay" or "Ryland Whittington".

There are so many ways to be a gay woman! I don't understand the loss of the proud butch woman that existed. One of the characters on Orange is the New Black (Boo?). It's how she identifies and I'm confused by how instead of appreciating the broad range of what it means to still be a woman---and I mean the FULL spectrum, from 1950s femme to boo-style butch---we've created trans as the only option for lesbians who would otherwise identify as hardcore, butch lesbians.

Labels. Labels!!! If we honor the spectrum of sexuality, why do we rush to put young people in boxes and literally treat them with drugs and procedures, right when they're trying to figure out where they fall? I know soon many gay men who do drag. There used to be a thriving Drag *King* community in DC for lesbians who performed, not as men, but as Kings. It was an expression that now seems to have fallen by the wayside.

We can all look back on horrible hairstyles or that black lipstick goth stage we went through in our teens. What happens to these young people who are intentionally and chemically put in a place where there's no coming back?

My young children have read the Princess Boy and I am Jazz. They are aware that there are MANY types of boys and girls in the world. We teach love is love with regard to gay marriage. They see same sex couples dropping their kids off everyday at school.

I dunno. Now I'm rambling. Basically, I'm nervous about the discussions we'll be having in ten years, when our children blame us for robbing them of the experience of their journey through well-intentioned but permanent surgeries and such.

No one should be denied the medical treatment they need. I just think we need to be very careful about the permanency of locking a child into a body. I am Jazz makes it clear that this child was born with (as they put it) a girl's brain in a boy's body. A 13 year old coming home from a meeting and deciding she's trans is an entirely different story, and should be handled with care and with great respect for the journey of finding what makes sense for them down the road.

I would certainly support my child in living as they wish (male/female, as man or woman), without the surgery or drugs. Allowing for permanent changes would essentially be me allowing them to make decisions they're not necessarily capable of making because of their limited life experience. Go be a drag queen, son. Find your way through the gay community. See where you fit. Experiment with all that this diverse community has to offer. Once you've educated yourself through life experience and know where you are most comfortable, I will support permanency as the need for it becomes apparent.

There are lots of ways to express difference. My femininity is not for other women; someone else's heterosexuality may not manifest the same as mine does. But, I've had years to work it out. Why aren't these children being given the same opportunity?

Anonymous wrote:21:31 back again. Just want to echo what 16:57 said about WPATH. Absolutely agree. Don't be fooled by someone just because they are an MD or a PhD or follow WPATH guidelines. Probe deeper and you will be shocked by what you find. Google about the USPATH conference last month in California. Read the articles on 4thwavenow.com. This is scary and serious medical malpractice that is not being challenged and not being reported.

I can't say this enough. My daughter has been victimized and i am so frustrated that all my attempts to get the media to do their job have been ignored. I feel it is the least that I can do to make some good come out of my tragic experience to help others. If it weren't for my daughter's privacy, I would be filing a couple of lawsuits right now.

I find this really scary, actually. It almost seems like these minimum standards (wait X number of months, don't do X until until the person has reached 18) have only been devised to they can be pointed to when someone raises concerns. But then it turns out these standards aren't being followed by the very doctors that comprise the organization. It's like a coverup, almost.

21:31 back again. Just want to echo what 16:57 said about WPATH. Absolutely agree. Don't be fooled by someone just because they are an MD or a PhD or follow WPATH guidelines. Probe deeper and you will be shocked by what you find. Google about the USPATH conference last month in California. Read the articles on 4thwavenow.com. This is scary and serious medical malpractice that is not being challenged and not being reported.

I can't say this enough. My daughter has been victimized and i am so frustrated that all my attempts to get the media to do their job have been ignored. I feel it is the least that I can do to make some good come out of my tragic experience to help others. If it weren't for my daughter's privacy, I would be filing a couple of lawsuits right now.

PP here- forum software only hyperlinked part of the link I provided, so you'll have to copy and paste http through /pdf in order to read.

http://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(17)30108-X/pdf

Thank you for posting info on Sasha Ayad, 21:31.

I wanted to share this information- for the PP who has posted in here often about WPATH and how that organization ensures responsible care for trans-identified youth- that's not so.

I previously thought experts adhered to eighteen as the minimum for genital surgery in the US, as recommended by WPATH. However, WPATH-affiliated doctors are performing genital surgery on minors under 18. http://www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(17)30108-X/pdf (link is to medical journal)

Consensus among the twenty WPATH-affiliated doctors in this survey was that first semester of senior year was their ideal time for performing vaginoplasty.

So (mostly-reversible) hormones are being given earlier than recommended- and not by shoddy or "shameful" docs, but by the top docs in the gender field. And now we see irreversible genital surgery is also being given by docs affiliated with the top transgender health organization given earlier than recommended.

Thank you 21:31. Very helpful