Anonymous wrote:Just mildly curious, what makes Penn "better" than Dartmouth or Brown? Penn has an impressive range of graduate and professional schools but for undergraduates what's the benefit over the other Ivies?

Other than Wharton I've always found the undergraduate college to be good but not particularly impressive or distinctive relative to the other Ivies. Penn and Cornell seemed more similar to each other than the other Ivies due to their size and large graduate/professional presence.

"I've always found"... what the f do you mean by that. Really? Have you analyzed that? I wouldn't say it's "better" or "worse" than "the other Ivies". They all have differences. Cornell is in upstate NY. Penn is in the middle of a city - a real urban experience. Brown has a cool laid back vibe in a smaller 'city.' Some of them have stronger departments than others. Etc. I have two Ivy degrees. Some classes and profs were awesome, some were boring, people make different sets of friends, have different extra curricular interests and opportunities. Seriously - why pit them off? These threads are the most ridiculous navel gazing over nothings and false perceptions by people who don't know what they don't know. I feel no desire to 'sell' anything about my experiences. They are going to be better or worse experiences for different kids. Let your kids apply where they seem to be good fits and let the cards fall where they may. They will be fine. promise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says "Cal"? Isn't it just "Berkeley"?

How do you say it in Mandarin?

My brother was an undergrad there -- he says Cal. I was a grad student -- I say Berkeley. "Cal" always struck me as a little presumptuous, given how many UCs there are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Princeton, Dartmouth and Brown are the Ivies that are primarily large LACs with affiliate graduate and professional schools that are almost overlooked.

Anonymous wrote:As a Freshman lots more interaction with faculty and research opportunities at Dartmouth. At Cal you have to be at least an upperclassman. Most Freshman lecture sectionms are taught my graduate students Don't know Brown or Cornell or Michigan for that matter. Within the Ivies, Dartmouth is a liberal arts college with professional schools. Emphasis on undergraduates.

Princeton doesn't have law, medical, or business schools, but it's a major research university with excellent PhD programs.

which is to Princeton's everlasting credit...!

Anonymous wrote:Who says "Cal"? Isn't it just "Berkeley"?

How do you say it in Mandarin?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole discussion of whether an ivy league or large public school is more advantage is nonsense without knowing what a student wants to study. You need to look at the individual program and the strength of each school in that area of study.

no it isn't nonsense because most kids don't know what they want to study (or if they do, end up switching). Looking at program strength is too narrow and doesn't provide enough of a hedge.

Most kids have some ideas if they are stem or humanities. You don't have to go so narrowly to say applied math vs pure math, but if the school is ranked poorly for mathematics it makes no sense to go there no matter how highly the school is ranked overall.

Anonymous wrote:The whole discussion of whether an ivy league or large public school is more advantage is nonsense without knowing what a student wants to study. You need to look at the individual program and the strength of each school in that area of study.

no it isn't nonsense because most kids don't know what they want to study (or if they do, end up switching). Looking at program strength is too narrow and doesn't provide enough of a hedge.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of the schools is a certain path to 'success' or 'failure' or ranking of life success in the real world. I have two "lesser Ivy" degrees -- some of my classmates are billionaires, some are successful lawyers, some are policy analysts, some are teachers, some are in rehab. From my experience of where kids from my 'elite' DMV schools ended up for college, their classmates are pretty similarly situated as adults - across some level of privilege-outcome spectrum. Some subset of the kids from all the schools you mention all end up in the same grad school programs, if that's their interest/path. Kids from here who go to college in CA are more likely to stay and live out there than ones who stay in the East - who are more likely to live in NY area, DC, Boston, etc. Or what types of majors, or if they are the type of kid who thrives in a smaller environment etc. I would focus on those types of questions.

Impressive. How did they become so wealthy?

Oh, I guess Penn isn't a 'lesser Ivy' anymore?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_by_number_of_billionaire_alumni http://www.businessinsider.com/why-upenn-produces-so-many-billionaires-2014-10

Having gone there, I personally think I would've had a better experience at a smaller school. I think the comparisons the OP is trying to make are silly -- have your kid apply to the 'top' schools that interest them, a couple mid range, and a couple safeties - and he/she will will be probably be just fine wherever he/she goes among them. Really.

The whole discussion of whether an ivy league or large public school is more advantage is nonsense without knowing what a student wants to study. You need to look at the individual program and the strength of each school in that area of study.

If you added 2500 PhD students (and the faculty needed to attract/support them) to a LAC, then it would cease to be anything like an LAC. You get bigger, more research-oriented departments, broader course selection, and TAs, as well as grad student culture.

Affiliated professional schools (especially law and business) would have less on an impact on the undergrad experience.

Princeton has around 5,500 undergraduates and 2,500 graduates and no professional schools. Dartmouth has 4,300 undergraduates and 2,000 graduates. Brown has 6,300 undergraduates and 2,300 graduates.

All three schools have distinctive undergraduate characters compared to Penn or Harvard or Cornell where the graduate and professional students outnumber the undergraduates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Princeton, Dartmouth and Brown are the Ivies that are primarily large LACs with affiliate graduate and professional schools that are almost overlooked.

Anonymous wrote:As a Freshman lots more interaction with faculty and research opportunities at Dartmouth. At Cal you have to be at least an upperclassman. Most Freshman lecture sectionms are taught my graduate students Don't know Brown or Cornell or Michigan for that matter. Within the Ivies, Dartmouth is a liberal arts college with professional schools. Emphasis on undergraduates.

Princeton doesn't have law, medical, or business schools, but it's a major research university with excellent PhD programs.

Anonymous wrote:Princeton, Dartmouth and Brown are the Ivies that are primarily large LACs with affiliate graduate and professional schools that are almost overlooked.

Anonymous wrote:As a Freshman lots more interaction with faculty and research opportunities at Dartmouth. At Cal you have to be at least an upperclassman. Most Freshman lecture sectionms are taught my graduate students Don't know Brown or Cornell or Michigan for that matter. Within the Ivies, Dartmouth is a liberal arts college with professional schools. Emphasis on undergraduates.

Princeton doesn't have law, medical, or business schools, but it's a major research university with excellent PhD programs.

Princeton, Dartmouth and Brown are the Ivies that are primarily large LACs with affiliate graduate and professional schools that are almost overlooked.

Anonymous wrote:As a Freshman lots more interaction with faculty and research opportunities at Dartmouth. At Cal you have to be at least an upperclassman. Most Freshman lecture sectionms are taught my graduate students Don't know Brown or Cornell or Michigan for that matter. Within the Ivies, Dartmouth is a liberal arts college with professional schools. Emphasis on undergraduates.

Just mildly curious, what makes Penn "better" than Dartmouth or Brown? Penn has an impressive range of graduate and professional schools but for undergraduates what's the benefit over the other Ivies?

Other than Wharton I've always found the undergraduate college to be good but not particularly impressive or distinctive relative to the other Ivies. Penn and Cornell seemed more similar to each other than the other Ivies due to their size and large graduate/professional presence.

Anonymous wrote:I just want to start out by saying I don't think any Ivy league is bad but do you think your child has more options going to the lowest ranking Ivy league school (Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth) rather than the best rated public colleges (UCLA, Berkely, Michigan, UVA).

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

http://blog.prepscholar.com/ivy-league-rankings

1. Berkeley, Columbia, Penn
2. Darthmouth, Brown
3. Cornell, UCLA, Michigan
5. UVA, W&M

Anonymous wrote:none of the schools is a certain path to 'success' or 'failure' or ranking of life success in the real world. I have two "lesser Ivy" degrees -- some of my classmates are billionaires, some are successful lawyers, some are policy analysts, some are teachers, some are in rehab. From my experience of where kids from my 'elite' DMV schools ended up for college, their classmates are pretty similarly situated as adults - across some level of privilege-outcome spectrum. Some subset of the kids from all the schools you mention all end up in the same grad school programs, if that's their interest/path. Kids from here who go to college in CA are more likely to stay and live out there than ones who stay in the East - who are more likely to live in NY area, DC, Boston, etc. Or what types of majors, or if they are the type of kid who thrives in a smaller environment etc. I would focus on those types of questions.

Impressive. How did they become so wealthy?