Anonymous wrote:So, what's the big concern if a kids gets in by cheating? As long as my kid is where they're supposed to be, in AAP or not, I don't really care. That kids is not a taking a spot away from other kids, as there isn't a set number of acceptances. He's the one who will suffer if he can't keep up.

Your child is not alone. Do you want your child to be surrounded by a bunch of cheaters? What if they become friends and little by little, everyone's concept of what is acceptable behavior within the community erodes. Too many parents caring only that their child gets what he/she deserves ( or what the parent thinks the kid deserves) is how we've gotten into the situation we have with AAP in this county.

Also, the cheater might not be taking a spot from anyone since there are apparently unlimited seats for AAP students, but over time that is what has inflated the program beyond all reason and led to the destruction of local school communities. And to what end? From what I've seen with kids now in college (both in gifted programs and not), all this ridiculous sorting at age 7 and 8, is a lot of disruption for little payoff.

So, what's the big concern if a kids gets in by cheating? As long as my kid is where they're supposed to be, in AAP or not, I don't really care. That kids is not a taking a spot away from other kids, as there isn't a set number of acceptances. He's the one who will suffer if he can't keep up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

NP here: our principal specifically said that kids should do nothing other than get a good night's sleep. I consider what you did trying to cheat the system. It is an abilities test to capture a kid's results on it if he has not seen a test like it within the last 12 months. You took the time to buy the book and go over it with you kid for the sole purpose of trying to up the score...yes, that's cheating based on the purpose of the test. SAT, GMAT and MCATs are tests that encourage prepping and aren't abilities tests.

Totally agree that, If the kids are not smart enough to be in asp naturally, that is very hard for them.

PP here. I am a natural test taker and was told I was gifted my entire life. DH was not in a gifted program as a young child and he was in ESOL. DH studied his ass off and scored off the charts of every test including his med school boards. He is significantly more successful than I am in both academics and career. I would not be so caught up about some test a child takes in 1st and 2nd grade. It is not the end all be all.

Try to stay on the topic were discussing on this particular section...is showing a kid the type of questions before the test in an effort to try to boost the score cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

NP here: our principal specifically said that kids should do nothing other than get a good night's sleep. I consider what you did trying to cheat the system. It is an abilities test to capture a kid's results on it if he has not seen a test like it within the last 12 months. You took the time to buy the book and go over it with you kid for the sole purpose of trying to up the score...yes, that's cheating based on the purpose of the test. SAT, GMAT and MCATs are tests that encourage prepping and aren't abilities tests.

Totally agree that, If the kids are not smart enough to be in asp naturally, that is very hard for them.

PP here. I am a natural test taker and was told I was gifted my entire life. DH was not in a gifted program as a young child and he was in ESOL. DH studied his ass off and scored off the charts of every test including his med school boards. He is significantly more successful than I am in both academics and career. I would not be so caught up about some test a child takes in 1st and 2nd grade. It is not the end all be all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

NP here: our principal specifically said that kids should do nothing other than get a good night's sleep. I consider what you did trying to cheat the system. It is an abilities test to capture a kid's results on it if he has not seen a test like it within the last 12 months. You took the time to buy the book and go over it with you kid for the sole purpose of trying to up the score...yes, that's cheating based on the purpose of the test. SAT, GMAT and MCATs are tests that encourage prepping and aren't abilities tests.

Totally agree that, If the kids are not smart enough to be in asp naturally, that is very hard for them.

Not really. The screening tests focus on giftedness but the program focuses on high academic achievement. Many kids who are high academic achievers but aren't gifted can handle the program.

Funny that Ivy-league educated people don't understand that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

It is cheating.
The point of the tests is to see how children do with questions they are unfamiliar with. Going through sample tests unfairly boosts their scores in comparison with children taking the test as it is meant to be taken. (Especially the CogAt-which is normed in Fairfax only). Unfairly inflating your child's score = cheating.

SATs etc are achievement tests, completely different kind of test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

NP here: our principal specifically said that kids should do nothing other than get a good night's sleep. I consider what you did trying to cheat the system. It is an abilities test to capture a kid's results on it if he has not seen a test like it within the last 12 months. You took the time to buy the book and go over it with you kid for the sole purpose of trying to up the score...yes, that's cheating based on the purpose of the test. SAT, GMAT and MCATs are tests that encourage prepping and aren't abilities tests.

Totally agree that, If the kids are not smart enough to be in asp naturally, that is very hard for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

NP here: our principal specifically said that kids should do nothing other than get a good night's sleep. I consider what you did trying to cheat the system. It is an abilities test to capture a kid's results on it if he has not seen a test like it within the last 12 months. You took the time to buy the book and go over it with you kid for the sole purpose of trying to up the score...yes, that's cheating based on the purpose of the test. SAT, GMAT and MCATs are tests that encourage prepping and aren't abilities tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Korean-American parent here. I bought one NNAT and one Cogat test from amazon. We spent about one week going over question format prior to the test. Do you seriously consider that cheating?

DH and I are both ivy league educated. We both studied for our SAT, GMAT and MCAT. I'm from NYC and most parents (white and Asian) do some sort of study prep to get their kids into the Manhattan gifted program or private school admissions. I knew more white people who got their kids tutored than Asians. I never considered this cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

NP. Parents have been known to buy a copy of the test online ahead of time.

Buying a practice test is not the same as cheating.

Using the same form as the test is cheating.

FCPS' statement in 2012:
http://web.archive.org/web/20150213063648/http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/FAQre2012CustomizedCogAT.pdf

FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our
attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the
CogAT being administered in FCPS. The number of students taking the custom form this year was not
sufficient to create reliable age-based scores. In future years, however, we expect that sufficient data
will be available to provide both age-based and grade-based scores based on both local and national
norms. It is anticipated that FCPS will continue to use both national and local norms in the identification
of students for Advanced Academic Program opportunities.

Does taking the PSAT mean one cheats on the SAT? No.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

NP. Parents have been known to buy a copy of the test online ahead of time.

Buying a practice test is not the same as cheating.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

There are tons of Chinese, Korean, Indian extracurricular programs that teach children how to take the test. Parents pay $$$ for this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NNAT is perceived as easier to jack the score up with cheating.

How do you think a 1st grader cheats while teacher administers this test?

NP. Parents have been known to buy a copy of the test online ahead of time.