Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vast majority of illegal immigrants work 5x harder than the average native born American.

Honestly, how do you know that? That is such a stereotype I am so sick of hearing. They are CHEAP labor that put LEGAL American businesses who have to pay minimum wage out of work. Just because you are cheap labor does not mean you work harder than Americans.

When was the last time you saw a white landscaping company? It isn't because they don't want to do it anymore. It is because companies that hire illegal immigrants pass over slightly cheaper rates to families who hire them and take in more money overall because they pay their employees pennies. It is so corrupt.

And this is why I know Republicans have no intention of doing anything about immigration except maintaining it as a foolproof wedge issue. If they really wanted to shut it down, they'd go after businesses that hire illegal immigrants. But agri-food lobby is powerful; if business wants cheap labor, business will continue to get it. Giving immigrants a path to citizenship means that labor may stay cheap but it will have the right to complain about losing a hand or dying on the job, not to mention start demanding minimum wage, which is way more than they're getting now.

Plus, as long as people's lives are so bad that they're willing to send their 10 year old child off on their own to get away from it, they will find a way to get over the border. Wall or not.

If unemployed Americans - both pro and anti Trump folks - took on those farm jobs, the farms wouldn't have to lobby the government. But Americans don't want those jobs. So, if we kick out all the illegal immigrants, I'm really wondering who will work on those farms:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/north-carolina-needed-6500-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

If capital can't find labor at a given price point, then capital has to offer more for labor. It is simply inaccurate to say Americans don't want those jobs. It is accurate to say Americans don't want those jobs AT THE CURRENT PREVAILING WAGE WHICH IS CLEARLY DEPRESSED BY UNDOCUMENTED LABOR.

Clearly? Show us the study and data which backs up this claim, preferably one that hasn't been discredited.

Anonymous wrote:I read that about 800,000 people become naturalized citizens each year. Seems doable if someone really wanted to.

JHFC you people make bricks look like members of Mensa.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vast majority of illegal immigrants work 5x harder than the average native born American.

Honestly, how do you know that? That is such a stereotype I am so sick of hearing. They are CHEAP labor that put LEGAL American businesses who have to pay minimum wage out of work. Just because you are cheap labor does not mean you work harder than Americans.

When was the last time you saw a white landscaping company? It isn't because they don't want to do it anymore. It is because companies that hire illegal immigrants pass over slightly cheaper rates to families who hire them and take in more money overall because they pay their employees pennies. It is so corrupt.

And this is why I know Republicans have no intention of doing anything about immigration except maintaining it as a foolproof wedge issue. If they really wanted to shut it down, they'd go after businesses that hire illegal immigrants. But agri-food lobby is powerful; if business wants cheap labor, business will continue to get it. Giving immigrants a path to citizenship means that labor may stay cheap but it will have the right to complain about losing a hand or dying on the job, not to mention start demanding minimum wage, which is way more than they're getting now.

Plus, as long as people's lives are so bad that they're willing to send their 10 year old child off on their own to get away from it, they will find a way to get over the border. Wall or not.

If unemployed Americans - both pro and anti Trump folks - took on those farm jobs, the farms wouldn't have to lobby the government. But Americans don't want those jobs. So, if we kick out all the illegal immigrants, I'm really wondering who will work on those farms:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/north-carolina-needed-6500-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

If capital can't find labor at a given price point, then capital has to offer more for labor. It is simply inaccurate to say Americans don't want those jobs. It is accurate to say Americans don't want those jobs AT THE CURRENT PREVAILING WAGE WHICH IS CLEARLY DEPRESSED BY UNDOCUMENTED LABOR.

Anonymous wrote:I'll preface this by saying I did NOT vote for trump. But how can anyone defend illegal immigration? Why would anyone bother to come here legally if there are zero repercussions for taking the easy route and not going through the process? Genuinely wondering.

I don't defend it but have lived with it for many decades. In fact, I have even worked with them in the fields when I was young. My perspective is that I believe the law should be enforced but I also believe we need to address the current law as well as set up a path to citizenship for those who are here. Most of them are hard working and are doing jobs that many Americans feel is beneath them. Why work when you can get a level of care from the government.

As to the path, which should imo be a 5 year minimum, as a part of any plan there has to be a defined structure as to any access to benefits afforded to citizens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) human empathy. These people come here because their economic or political situations are awful. The illegal part isirrelevant to me because there are few options for 'legal' immigration. I care about others and their suffering. I can't emphasize this enough. I'm actually shocked how little empathy our country is exhibiting these days. 2) America is a nation of immigrants. Except for slaves and native Americans we all came here more or less for the same reason, usually with discrimination when we arrived. Pretty awful to slam the door now. 3) immigrants add tremendous value to our culture and economy. (see 2). 4) points made above in other posts ..I'm not interested in ripping apart these poor families.

Why do you not care?

I care about the veterans that don't get the money we pay towards illegals. I care about the American children who's education is short-changed due to illegal immigrant children. I care about doctors that don't get paid in hospitals due to illegals.

Oh you guys love to trot out veterans. Here's how I feel about that: veterans do get support. Quite a bit. And it's a job they chose to do knowing the risks. Are we supposed to divert ALL resources to veterans or what? I have respect for them but I'm not sure why ANY expenditure in the budget can be criticized because "it could go to veterans." It could go to higher teacher pay too but it doesn't. It could go to universal free healthcare, but it doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another serious question, why don't these people become legal citizens?

Or learn English. For the love of god, learn English!!! Assimilate already.

Meh. My immigrant ancestors came here only speaking German and never really learned English. Their kids and grandkids did, but they all lived together in a German immigrant community in Indiana and got along fine without English. All the cemetery headstones for several decades after they arrived are all in German. The school primer books were in German, too.

That's the story of America, my friend. People assimilate after one or two generations and once they're made to feel welcomed.

+1 and this story is not unique.

I went to Ellis Island a few months ago, and there were stories of how some European immigrants lied their way into this country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vast majority of illegal immigrants work 5x harder than the average native born American.

Honestly, how do you know that? That is such a stereotype I am so sick of hearing. They are CHEAP labor that put LEGAL American businesses who have to pay minimum wage out of work. Just because you are cheap labor does not mean you work harder than Americans.

When was the last time you saw a white landscaping company? It isn't because they don't want to do it anymore. It is because companies that hire illegal immigrants pass over slightly cheaper rates to families who hire them and take in more money overall because they pay their employees pennies. It is so corrupt.

And this is why I know Republicans have no intention of doing anything about immigration except maintaining it as a foolproof wedge issue. If they really wanted to shut it down, they'd go after businesses that hire illegal immigrants. But agri-food lobby is powerful; if business wants cheap labor, business will continue to get it. Giving immigrants a path to citizenship means that labor may stay cheap but it will have the right to complain about losing a hand or dying on the job, not to mention start demanding minimum wage, which is way more than they're getting now.

Plus, as long as people's lives are so bad that they're willing to send their 10 year old child off on their own to get away from it, they will find a way to get over the border. Wall or not.

If unemployed Americans - both pro and anti Trump folks - took on those farm jobs, the farms wouldn't have to lobby the government. But Americans don't want those jobs. So, if we kick out all the illegal immigrants, I'm really wondering who will work on those farms:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/15/north-carolina-needed-6500-farm-workers-only-7-americans-stuck-it-out/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another serious question, why don't these people become legal citizens?

Or learn English. For the love of god, learn English!!! Assimilate already.

Meh. My immigrant ancestors came here only speaking German and never really learned English. Their kids and grandkids did, but they all lived together in a German immigrant community in Indiana and got along fine without English. All the cemetery headstones for several decades after they arrived are all in German. The school primer books were in German, too.

That's the story of America, my friend. People assimilate after one or two generations and once they're made to feel welcomed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another serious question, why don't these people become legal citizens?

Or learn English. For the love of god, learn English!!! Assimilate already.

The English bothers me a little bit, but what I really don't get is why they don't become citizens.

OK, I'm going try not to be snarky here, but do you guys understand how this country's immigration system works?

When you are here illegally, you can't just say, "Oh, I'd like to be legal now while living here even though I'm here illegaly". The only time they can do that is when the government offers amnesty, which both Reagan and Bush have.

Or are you confusing legal immigrant vs. illegal immigrant, and you are asking why don't legal immigrants become citizens? I'm asking this honestly because one of the things I've learned about people during this election is that some Americans are quite clueless about the different statuses.

but if 8 million applications are made for green cards each year, why don't they apply? Why sneak in illegally? The U.S. s pretty generous with the green cards.

You just answered your own question -- there are too many applicants, and not enough green card spots, especially for those coming from south of the border. Plus, many are uneducated, so who knows if they are even aware of how the immigration system works. And it can be expensive to apply for green cards.

So what is your answer PP? Open the borders and let them all in. You have given every single excuse of a reason for them to be here whenever and wherever they want. Sickening.

wtf are you talking about? I am just answering that PPs question. Sheesh.

If these people are such good people and they're providing so much to the base economy, these other countries they came from should be more than happy to have them back. Hell, they should pay for them back.

Anonymous wrote:OP, people who defend illegal immigration do not believe (generally speaking of course) in American Exceptionalism. They (usually) believe that all systems of government, all religions, all moral codes, all peoples' histories are "equal" and who are you to judge one as better than another? They do not understand that the immigrants who have made this country great for the past 230 years are those who come here because they want to be like us, to become Americans and to assimilate to our way of life. Rather, they support the idea that anyone from any background can "contribute" to what we have already established, by bringing their own way of being, whether or not it fits our history and core being.

I don't get it either. It's cultural suicide. But that's the way many of these people think. It's a form of self-loathing, I suspect.

huh? They come here for the freedoms, including the freedom to make a million bucks. It is (or was) called the American dream. I get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read that about 800,000 people become naturalized citizens each year. Seems doable if someone really wanted to.

Sure. All the day laborers, restaurant workers and non-American domestic workers can just walk on the USCIS red carpet to citizenship each year. Easy as pie.

well, no, they have to go through the legal process. It takes a few years. But that is the proper way to do it. Otherwise hey are lawbreakers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vast majority of illegal immigrants work 5x harder than the average native born American.

Honestly, how do you know that? That is such a stereotype I am so sick of hearing. They are CHEAP labor that put LEGAL American businesses who have to pay minimum wage out of work. Just because you are cheap labor does not mean you work harder than Americans.

When was the last time you saw a white landscaping company? It isn't because they don't want to do it anymore. It is because companies that hire illegal immigrants pass over slightly cheaper rates to families who hire them and take in more money overall because they pay their employees pennies. It is so corrupt.

And this is why I know Republicans have no intention of doing anything about immigration except maintaining it as a foolproof wedge issue. If they really wanted to shut it down, they'd go after businesses that hire illegal immigrants. But agri-food lobby is powerful; if business wants cheap labor, business will continue to get it. Giving immigrants a path to citizenship means that labor may stay cheap but it will have the right to complain about losing a hand or dying on the job, not to mention start demanding minimum wage, which is way more than they're getting now.

Plus, as long as people's lives are so bad that they're willing to send their 10 year old child off on their own to get away from it, they will find a way to get over the border. Wall or not.

OP, people who defend illegal immigration do not believe (generally speaking of course) in American Exceptionalism. They (usually) believe that all systems of government, all religions, all moral codes, all peoples' histories are "equal" and who are you to judge one as better than another? They do not understand that the immigrants who have made this country great for the past 230 years are those who come here because they want to be like us, to become Americans and to assimilate to our way of life. Rather, they support the idea that anyone from any background can "contribute" to what we have already established, by bringing their own way of being, whether or not it fits our history and core being.

I don't get it either. It's cultural suicide. But that's the way many of these people think. It's a form of self-loathing, I suspect.

Anonymous wrote:I read that about 800,000 people become naturalized citizens each year. Seems doable if someone really wanted to.

Sure. All the day laborers, restaurant workers and non-American domestic workers can just walk on the USCIS red carpet to citizenship each year. Easy as pie.