Anonymous
11/03/2016 19:15
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
No, not really. If YOU study human sexuality, you will find a mountain of scientific evidence that men have a higher drive for sex than the average woman.
Oh sure, you can claim that woman are somehow morally superior, have better emotional control, whatever you want to say that seems to give women the "high ground" when it comes to sex. But at the end of the day, it comes down to their basic instincts: men want it more.
If you picked a different topic than sex, for example what color to paint the kitchen, you will find that men are far more in tune with their emotions, don't get angry and don't get passive aggressive.
I never said women are morally superior. There are plenty of woman who were socialized to use sex to get what they want. If you aren't pretty, skinny, good in bed ... you will never catch a good man.
Also when men were socialize in an experiment to think once a week was in the 90th percentile, and they got it once a week, they rated their marriage as happy, if they got it 3 times a week they rated their marriage as far superior. When men were socialized in an experiment to think 4 times a week was in the 90th percentile and they got it once a week they rated their marriage as unhappy/dissatisfying and 3 times a week as okay/good.. not happy or superior.
Men just want to believe they are getting more than the next guy and that is NOT biology.
I don't really care about the next guy. I consider sex to be an expression of love and intimacy. I have come to appreciate that it doesn't necessarily work that way for her but if she wants me to feel loved, she isn't going to be turning me down left and right.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 18:48
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I never said women are morally superior. There are plenty of woman who were socialized to use sex to get what they want. If you aren't pretty, skinny, good in bed ... you will never catch a good man.
Also when men were socialize in an experiment to think once a week was in the 90th percentile, and they got it once a week, they rated their marriage as happy, if they got it 3 times a week they rated their marriage as far superior. When men were socialized in an experiment to think 4 times a week was in the 90th percentile and they got it once a week they rated their marriage as unhappy/dissatisfying and 3 times a week as okay/good.. not happy or superior.
Men just want to believe they are getting more than the next guy and that is NOT biology.
Here are links about the sex drive of Men > Women:
https://kinseyconfidential.org/men-sex-women/
http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare#1
Note that social conditioning is not a factor in any of this analysis. I stick to my assertion that biology explains sex is far more important to men than women, irrespective of what the next guy is getting.
I dispute your statement about conditioning. Link to that experiment please? 15 minutes of Googling turned up nothing.
One article on the web is not going to explain human sexuality to you. You need to take a graduate level course or 5 and read about 20 research cases. You need to understand different cultures and their norms to sex... Egypt, S. American cultures, African nations, vs American and you will see nothing about courtship is biological. You need to study sexual activity in jails, in families, among heterosexuals and homosexuals. This is not just 1 article explaining how you work.
there is sexuality, sexual norms, sexual preference, sexual orientation... none of those are the same... ect... it's complicated.
Courtship =/= mating
sex =/= to intimacy
You have your limited experience as a white male American and you think it is biological, but it isn't. It is subconscious.... since you have not been educated enough to understand yourself consciously. But it is not biological.
Men sex drive is (moderately, about 10%) greater than women but there is no link to fulfilling that sex drive a certain amount of times a week and happiness/intimacy/fullfillment.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 18:35
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:I never said women are morally superior. There are plenty of woman who were socialized to use sex to get what they want. If you aren't pretty, skinny, good in bed ... you will never catch a good man.
Also when men were socialize in an experiment to think once a week was in the 90th percentile, and they got it once a week, they rated their marriage as happy, if they got it 3 times a week they rated their marriage as far superior. When men were socialized in an experiment to think 4 times a week was in the 90th percentile and they got it once a week they rated their marriage as unhappy/dissatisfying and 3 times a week as okay/good.. not happy or superior.
Men just want to believe they are getting more than the next guy and that is NOT biology.
Here are links about the sex drive of Men > Women:
https://kinseyconfidential.org/men-sex-women/
http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare#1
Note that social conditioning is not a factor in any of this analysis. I stick to my assertion that biology explains sex is far more important to men than women, irrespective of what the next guy is getting.
I dispute your statement about conditioning. Link to that experiment please? 15 minutes of Googling turned up nothing.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 16:51
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
What is a long bout?
There has been Times where is has been several weeks and one occasion months.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 13:52
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
Bullshit. Men are socialized to believe that they only get sex if they gain female approval. When they don't get female approval, they try ramping up the gifts, "choreplay" and other supplications, and then can't figure out why her vagina seems dryer than ever.
If women were actually "in tune to emotions" then they'd realize exactly what is being said here -- if you want emotional intimacy from a man, give him more sex.
Men that try to do chores for sex realize it doesn't work, so they stop. (Of course they should do chores because they are adults, but that is another problem)
Women that have sex to shut their H up realize it does not work so they stop. (of course they should have sex because it is fun, but sex with a grump is not fun)
The chore for sex and sex for intimacy game is a losers game.
Intimacy is for intimacy
Sex is for sex.
Chores are to have a nice home.
Stop mixing them all together.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 13:45
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The sex is only good for me when the intimacy is high. Don't get me wrong, the sex is important, but it SUCKS when intimacy is missing with my husband. I think for both of us.
+100
curious (and I posted about this recently) if it has always been this way? did you have the strong emotional connection with past lovers too? part of me thinks that when DWs say they need a strong emotional connection in order to have sex is a way to mask a lower drive than their DHs.
PP here. I still have sex with DH when intimacy is low. I make it a priority (2x/week, minimum, often more). I initiate most of the time unless DH has been away, then he's all over when he returns.
I've had sex without the emotional connection, it's fine, OK. I had a few boyfriends who came and went because we didn't have that emotional connection. But with somebody who is important to me? I need the intimacy and emotional connection. I can tell, when DH & I are not emotionally connected, when we are disconnected, sex feels mechanical and I can't be done with it fast enough. I can orgasm, it isn't that, but it isn't fulfilling. It feels gross and forced.
With past lovers (so long ago now) but yes, I wanted/needed that connection. I was always friends with lovers before sex, so we'd create an emotional bond or connection before it became sexual.
I think the more invested you are in a person, the more that emotional connection is important. A ONS? you don't expect an emotional connection, you don't get it, nothing missed. But your spouse? That intimacy is important.
Somebody pointed out that for women
emotional intimacy --> sex
and for men
sex --> emotional intimacy.
It is an important feedback loop for both sexes.
I'm the PP you were responding to, and I want to thank you for having taken the time and effort to provide a really illuminating response. This makes a good deal of sense to me (a guy, obviously) - obviously every woman is different but I'd venture to say the majority of women would match this categorization that you've described.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 13:43
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
No, not really. If YOU study human sexuality, you will find a mountain of scientific evidence that men have a higher drive for sex than the average woman.
Oh sure, you can claim that woman are somehow morally superior, have better emotional control, whatever you want to say that seems to give women the "high ground" when it comes to sex. But at the end of the day, it comes down to their basic instincts: men want it more.
If you picked a different topic than sex, for example what color to paint the kitchen, you will find that men are far more in tune with their emotions, don't get angry and don't get passive aggressive.
I never said women are morally superior. There are plenty of woman who were socialized to use sex to get what they want. If you aren't pretty, skinny, good in bed ... you will never catch a good man.
Also when men were socialize in an experiment to think once a week was in the 90th percentile, and they got it once a week, they rated their marriage as happy, if they got it 3 times a week they rated their marriage as far superior. When men were socialized in an experiment to think 4 times a week was in the 90th percentile and they got it once a week they rated their marriage as unhappy/dissatisfying and 3 times a week as okay/good.. not happy or superior.
Men just want to believe they are getting more than the next guy and that is NOT biology.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 13:11
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The sex is only good for me when the intimacy is high. Don't get me wrong, the sex is important, but it SUCKS when intimacy is missing with my husband. I think for both of us.
+100
curious (and I posted about this recently) if it has always been this way? did you have the strong emotional connection with past lovers too? part of me thinks that when DWs say they need a strong emotional connection in order to have sex is a way to mask a lower drive than their DHs.
PP here. I still have sex with DH when intimacy is low. I make it a priority (2x/week, minimum, often more). I initiate most of the time unless DH has been away, then he's all over when he returns.
I've had sex without the emotional connection, it's fine, OK. I had a few boyfriends who came and went because we didn't have that emotional connection. But with somebody who is important to me? I need the intimacy and emotional connection. I can tell, when DH & I are not emotionally connected, when we are disconnected, sex feels mechanical and I can't be done with it fast enough. I can orgasm, it isn't that, but it isn't fulfilling. It feels gross and forced.
With past lovers (so long ago now) but yes, I wanted/needed that connection. I was always friends with lovers before sex, so we'd create an emotional bond or connection before it became sexual.
I think the more invested you are in a person, the more that emotional connection is important. A ONS? you don't expect an emotional connection, you don't get it, nothing missed. But your spouse? That intimacy is important.
Somebody pointed out that for women
emotional intimacy --> sex
and for men
sex --> emotional intimacy.
It is an important feedback loop for both sexes.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 12:38
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
Bullshit. Men are socialized to believe that they only get sex if they gain female approval. When they don't get female approval, they try ramping up the gifts, "choreplay" and other supplications, and then can't figure out why her vagina seems dryer than ever.
If women were actually "in tune to emotions" then they'd realize exactly what is being said here -- if you want emotional intimacy from a man, give him more sex.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 12:34
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
No, not really. If YOU study human sexuality, you will find a mountain of scientific evidence that men have a higher drive for sex than the average woman.
Oh sure, you can claim that woman are somehow morally superior, have better emotional control, whatever you want to say that seems to give women the "high ground" when it comes to sex. But at the end of the day, it comes down to their basic instincts: men want it more.
If you picked a different topic than sex, for example what color to paint the kitchen, you will find that men are far more in tune with their emotions, don't get angry and don't get passive aggressive.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 11:14
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If DW were to stop putting energy into our sex life I'd stop putting energy into our relationship.
I'd start doing more things on my own.
If my spouse gives me a crappy gift.
If I want 1 more kid and my spouse doesn't
If I do all the housework
If I make all the money
If they don't make enough money
If they spend too much money
If they get fat
If they .....
this can go on forever... you can make up any excuse in the world to not want to "put energy into the relationship" but it's just an excuse and a way to blame others for your own actions/inactions.
flip the equation around and you get the same answer: a DW, who doesn't want to have sex or put the energy into the marriage to ensure sex and intimacy are an equilibrium, can come up with a myriad of excuses and hoops for a DH to jump through (i.e., moving goal posts) to shift the blame to him.
if my DH would understand me better
if my DH would do more chores
if only my DH made more money...
if my DH would eat better
if my DH would work out more
if my DH....
Anonymous
11/03/2016 11:13
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Not really, not if you study human sexuality.
Men are socialized to believe they are manly if they obtain sex when they want it. When they don't they get frustrated, feel used and start to feel emasculated.
They don't understand their emotions but they were socialize that anger is the only emotion that is "okay" for men to express. It comes out as being passive aggressive ... like not filling up the tank, not holding their wife's hand, watching sports instead of talking to their wife.
Women are in tune to emotions, when the "gas does not get filled up" they sense their H is angry and they are socialized to "smooth things out" so they have sex.
The marriage turns into a fee for service sexual game and then real intimacy dies... the one that has not connection to sex.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 11:07
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The sex is only good for me when the intimacy is high. Don't get me wrong, the sex is important, but it SUCKS when intimacy is missing with my husband. I think for both of us.
+100
curious (and I posted about this recently) if it has always been this way? did you have the strong emotional connection with past lovers too? part of me thinks that when DWs say they need a strong emotional connection in order to have sex is a way to mask a lower drive than their DHs.
Not PP but I think for me... i need intimacy to have sex with the same person over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... again.
But 1 night stands and kick them out ... no intimacy needed... but get your a$$ out of here, really, before the sun comes up please. out... out... out.
ok, ONS aside, how about past BFs? Especially if you dated a jerk or narcissist who treated you poorly.
i only had 1 jerk boyfriend, he was nice for 6 months, mean for 2, dumped him over the phone... pre-texting.
I had a friends with benefits, in college to fill in the gaps, and I banged my roommate for about 3 months before the lease was up.
Both relationships were monogamous when we were banging. I am never the OW and I don't need some psycho chick getting all dramatic with me.
None of them just treated me badly because I was not in the mood. if they did I would have dumped their benefits without a second thought. Sorry I am being a jerk but it has been 2 weeks so you reap what you sow. Really? WTF!
I laugh when people say their spouse has turned into a roommate... I think... that sound good to me.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 11:03
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.
Take away sex and intimacy dies.
Anonymous
11/03/2016 11:01
Subject: Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I feel no connection without sex. If I'm not getting regular sex or my wife goes long bouts of not wanting sex I withdraw emotionally. Kind of counter-productive but I can't help the way I feel.
38 year old male
Yup. For men, intimacy results from sex (doesn't have to result, but won't result without it). Take away the sex, the intimacy evaporates.
For women, sex results from intimacy. Take away the intimacy, the sex evaporates.
This, x1000. The core difference between men and women in terms of sex. But once the sex evaporates, it is likely to materialize elsewhere for one, the other, or both.