Head Start has not shown long term success despite its effort to do just what you describe. Now what?

Kids are just not equal. I have two both grew up in the same home same preschools and basical levels of enrichment. One has been in magnets since third grade. One has never been in a magnet and works to keep up in HS classes. I don't want him in a HGC. He doesn't belong there. I don't expect MCPS to make them equal.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?

Railing against the inevitable is futile. The program will open to a more diverse group of kids. And your hypothetical stand in the schoolhouse door scenarios are pointless. Welcome to 2017. Now learn to deal.

So, your answer is "no, I don't want the highest scoring kids, I want a thumb on the scale".

I want what scares you most: diversity on every level. Ethnic and socio economic. So if your scale means that all the kids tested will not have had a breakfast that morning, or slept in a shelter, or had a lifetime of overcoming generational poverty or institutionalized racism... sure, make that scale completely even. Make sure all of the kids go through that and then, sure, test them all and let the highest scorers in.
But that's impossible, and you know that.
Your choice is a false construct which excludes for these things because you refuse to see them as valid reasons for inequity.
But your willful blindness is irrelevant. Frankly, so is our conversation.
Change is here. And you can't stop it.
Guess who's coming to dinner...and your precious HGC.

Are we talking about MoCo or Calcutta? Lol.

The good ole US of A, right here in MoCo. If you ever stepped foot in a homeless shelter or worked with charities dealing with impoverished families, talked to a foster child... or had any exposure to "others" beyond watching reruns of "Cops", you would know that. But you like being willfully ignorant of such things. It justifies your inflated sense of superiority and refusal to see beyond your own narrow world views. Careful, don't trip on your sheet on your way to becoming completely irrelevant.

Anyway...
Totally agree with the poster who pointed out that the key is to challenge kids and provide a good education for the youngest of learners. That's why it's completely stunning to me that a so-called blue state like Maryland doesn't have funded preschool and pre-K programs for all kids, regardless of income. I mean, red states like Georgia and Tennessee have this.
Much of the achievement gap has its roots in early childhood education (or the lack of it).
The kids of middle and higher SES parents can afford to send their kids to pricey preschools (and I don't knock them or blame them for this...heck, I've done it). They are better educated--often due to a generations-long series of privilege--and use more honed vocabulary--a proven brain booster for young learners. Healthy diets, exposure to music as infants, all of this helps.
Meanwhile, the lowest income kids, who due to institutionalized inequity, start off behind. Parents who may not have access to healthier food choices, education, etc... Early Head Start and Head Start try hard to correct for this, but in many areas in MoCo that's only a few hours a day. For a parent working some 10 hour shift job, this kind of staggered day is impossible to balance. So the child goes into an affordable daycare that likely may not have an educational underpinning. Or the child stays home with a relative who may not have the background or bandwidth to educate the little one at home.
Meanwhile, his/her more affluent peers are learning the rudiments of literacy and math in preschool. Nature walks provide hands on science learning. Arts, music, foreign language...all of these things get little minds working overtime.
So, by the time all of these kids arrive for kindergarten, the kids with good preschool educations are already ahead. Meanwhile, the lower SES child is already behind.
The gap broadens from there as the kids are grouped by ability and differentiated math and reading. Teachers in Title 1 and Focus schools (the good ones at least) try to catch everyone up, but it's a lot to overcome. Throw in ESL and it's a herculean task to get everyone on level.
Jump ahead three years and it's a rare child that can overcome that kind of gap.
If you want to preserve the integrity of HGC and ensure fair and across the board standards--start at both ends of the equation. Open access now so that more kids might get that type of education and get a long awaited intellectual jolt. And advocate that all children receive access to an enriched and free preschool education. Level the playing field for toddlers and watch the brightest of all hues rise to the top.

Anonymous wrote:The thing is that all children will either rise to the level of instruction or struggle with it. If we start with high level instruction in kindergarten and continue it through 3rd grade, then the children that are ready to soar (regardless of their home life) will present themselves as gifted learners. Instead we have very low standards for k-3. For the children that are not getting enriched home lives, they are falling farther and farther behind and it is really hard to just one day on the first day of 4th grade in either an hgc or a compacted math class to just expect them to be able to catch up. The we are asking the children to make a huge leap and asking the teachers to bridge this huge divide. Forget that- start them in kindergarten! Expect more from EVERY child. Let the URM have a chance of success by exposing them from a super young age so by the time 4th grade comes around, all children that are capable have the background to push forward.

The thing is if they really start to chanllenge every kids from kindergarten and up,the demand for center spots will not be nearly as high. The reason why every bright kids were pushed to go is because the curriculum is so easy and slow for so many kids.

Instead..like in compact math the teachers will be expected to get each child to the level of the HGC somehow. That will probably mean the end of the long term home based projects which are the best part of the centers.

Anonymous wrote:The thing is that all children will either rise to the level of instruction or struggle with it. If we start with high level instruction in kindergarten and continue it through 3rd grade, then the children that are ready to soar (regardless of their home life) will present themselves as gifted learners. Instead we have very low standards for k-3. For the children that are not getting enriched home lives, they are falling farther and farther behind and it is really hard to just one day on the first day of 4th grade in either an hgc or a compacted math class to just expect them to be able to catch up. The we are asking the children to make a huge leap and asking the teachers to bridge this huge divide. Forget that- start them in kindergarten! Expect more from EVERY child. Let the URM have a chance of success by exposing them from a super young age so by the time 4th grade comes around, all children that are capable have the background to push forward.

I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in Focus or Title 1 schools lately.

The thing is that all children will either rise to the level of instruction or struggle with it. If we start with high level instruction in kindergarten and continue it through 3rd grade, then the children that are ready to soar (regardless of their home life) will present themselves as gifted learners. Instead we have very low standards for k-3. For the children that are not getting enriched home lives, they are falling farther and farther behind and it is really hard to just one day on the first day of 4th grade in either an hgc or a compacted math class to just expect them to be able to catch up. The we are asking the children to make a huge leap and asking the teachers to bridge this huge divide. Forget that- start them in kindergarten! Expect more from EVERY child. Let the URM have a chance of success by exposing them from a super young age so by the time 4th grade comes around, all children that are capable have the background to push forward.

Ironically I am afraid any misguided efforts that end up dumbimg down gifted programs may hurt high achieving minorities the most. Families with resources will supplement or leaving. I am not assuming that the programs will get dumbed down but this is my fear. Not unfounded. See other thread on compact math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?

Railing against the inevitable is futile. The program will open to a more diverse group of kids. And your hypothetical stand in the schoolhouse door scenarios are pointless. Welcome to 2017. Now learn to deal.

So, your answer is "no, I don't want the highest scoring kids, I want a thumb on the scale".

I want what scares you most: diversity on every level. Ethnic and socio economic. So if your scale means that all the kids tested will not have had a breakfast that morning, or slept in a shelter, or had a lifetime of overcoming generational poverty or institutionalized racism... sure, make that scale completely even. Make sure all of the kids go through that and then, sure, test them all and let the highest scorers in.
But that's impossible, and you know that.
Your choice is a false construct which excludes for these things because you refuse to see them as valid reasons for inequity.
But your willful blindness is irrelevant. Frankly, so is our conversation.
Change is here. And you can't stop it.
Guess who's coming to dinner...and your precious HGC.

Are we talking about MoCo or Calcutta? Lol.

Anonymous wrote:Next time I will vote for TRUMP.

I am not sure I can ever bring myself vote Trump. But a republican county government may not be so bad.

Next time I will vote for TRUMP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?

Railing against the inevitable is futile. The program will open to a more diverse group of kids. And your hypothetical stand in the schoolhouse door scenarios are pointless. Welcome to 2017. Now learn to deal.

So, your answer is "no, I don't want the highest scoring kids, I want a thumb on the scale".

I want what scares you most: diversity on every level. Ethnic and socio economic. So if your scale means that all the kids tested will not have had a breakfast that morning, or slept in a shelter, or had a lifetime of overcoming generational poverty or institutionalized racism... sure, make that scale completely even. Make sure all of the kids go through that and then, sure, test them all and let the highest scorers in.
But that's impossible, and you know that.
Your choice is a false construct which excludes for these things because you refuse to see them as valid reasons for inequity.
But your willful blindness is irrelevant. Frankly, so is our conversation.
Change is here. And you can't stop it.
Guess who's coming to dinner...and your precious HGC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?

Railing against the inevitable is futile. The program will open to a more diverse group of kids. And your hypothetical stand in the schoolhouse door scenarios are pointless. Welcome to 2017. Now learn to deal.

So, your answer is "no, I don't want the highest scoring kids, I want a thumb on the scale".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?

Railing against the inevitable is futile. The program will open to a more diverse group of kids. And your hypothetical stand in the schoolhouse door scenarios are pointless. Welcome to 2017. Now learn to deal.

Agree with PP but I don;t think that suits MCPSs goal of reducing the gap. They can not claim to have if the competitive programs are not representative of the whole population. I think eventually all the magnets will be more lottery based. Blair will still have a math science program but it will just offer extra classes as opposed to accelerated classes. First Functions for 9th grade will disappear. Then Magnet Algebra I will be added. Chem and Physics will become full year classes... Top kids will eventually not be as interested. RMIB will be just like Rockville IB..open to anyone in the school. The diploma rate will go down and few kids will come from other schools. It will take many years for this. Look at Takoma Park Elementary school's magnet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! finally we have some holistic factor in play. Bravo MCPS for working so diligently on increasing the number of URM in the magnet programs. It won't eliminate the inequality of MCPS right away, but is to the right direction!

I hope when Mrs. Dixon becomes the new elected MCPS BOE member in November, she will remember her promise to have students to attend schools of their choices, not to be limited by their home locations. We need stronger leaders with vision in MCPS. We need people with a big heart to truly the help the URM and to achieve equality.

URMs don't need to be in magnet schools. URMs need to first bridge the gap at the very basic and elementary level of education. All in all, this is charity to the unprepared. It will not bridge the achievement gap.
Inequality in achievement is a function of the home-life primarily. The majority of URM parents are not involved in the education of their kids.

It's hilarious to see so many white folks running scared because your little HGC pipeline for your snowflakes is threatened by attempts at leveling the playing field.
Oh no, if minority and poor kids and their parents learn about the programs and, gasp, test in...what does it meeeeaaaaan?
I mean how could you ever get a taxpayer-funded, special experience for your kids with so many blacks, Latinos and poors around?
Malign diversity efforts. Flood the school board with disingenuous complaints about lowered standards. Make paternalistic prognostications about what URMs really need--after all, you know what's best for them.
Build a wall. Do whatever it takes to keep your privilege secure.
And, if that fails, there's always private.

I think they should give the tests to every kid in MCPS and take the highest scoring. IMO that wouldn't eliminate the disparity and might even make it worse; that's my guess why MCPS isn't doing it. Are you OK with every kid being tested and taking the highest scorers or do you still want a thumb on the scale to balance demographics?