Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, I don't know because I've never had a bad experience though I have clicked better with some than others. Are you just unlucky or am I lucky? Who knows.

So I'd say because people suck everywhere in every profession.

This. It's ridiculous to make vast generalizations based on limited experience, OP.

I've been at this quite awhile. I've dealt with a lot of "professionals" over the past 15 years. And yes, many of them have very low expectations of SN kids.

Right, you = n of 1--that's limited experience.

She's not alone. Most parents become experts of their kids, and understanding of others' needs as well. Which means that unless the SPED has LDs herself, or SN kids, she will perhaps not have the best approach. And then, sometimes SPED teachers with SN kids want to lump every kid they meet with their own kids! So there's never a set rule, except this one:
Many sped teachers don't get it.

That's one option.

Another is that parents themselves don't get it -- they believe their particular snowfllake is the center of the universe.

Sorry, that's not how schools work.

If you don't like it, and you believe you know it all, simply go the homeschooling route.

How ugly a thought on a SN forum.

The law is LRE and a FAPE, which includes specialized therapies that allow chidlren to access the curriculum. And parents have every right to insist on those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ooh yeah...

I spent 5 years trying to explain that my child was gifted AND learning disabled, and needed to be challenged within the bounds of his disabilities, to no avail. That combo is the hardest scenario, as an educator who doesn't have much time with your kid, to understand and plan for. As a parent, I KNOW my child. But these people don't, and I hate to say it, but if they don't have a certain level of intelligence themselves, all their care and professional dedication will only go so far.

I battled during my son's 5th grade year to have the SPED teacher recommend him for a gifted and LD program in middle school, as he had been waitlisted for the magnet. We spent thousands in private evaluations to prove our point, which makes me sad because so many families can't afford this and are left at the mercy of a very imperfect system.

OK, I have heard this term gifted and LD, but what does that mean? How can that be? Does that mean high IQ but poor results? Is disability in only one area and child excels at other subjects? I am not trying to be sarcastic or smart "something" but could you explain what that means in real life and in real school, how does this reflect grades and learning? Both my kids seem smart to me, but their issues interfere with all aspects of school and life.

Anonymous wrote:Ooh yeah...

I spent 5 years trying to explain that my child was gifted AND learning disabled, and needed to be challenged within the bounds of his disabilities, to no avail. That combo is the hardest scenario, as an educator who doesn't have much time with your kid, to understand and plan for. As a parent, I KNOW my child. But these people don't, and I hate to say it, but if they don't have a certain level of intelligence themselves, all their care and professional dedication will only go so far.

I battled during my son's 5th grade year to have the SPED teacher recommend him for a gifted and LD program in middle school, as he had been waitlisted for the magnet. We spent thousands in private evaluations to prove our point, which makes me sad because so many families can't afford this and are left at the mercy of a very imperfect system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps we have an attitude to some parents in reaction to what is so obvious on this thread. So many of you think we're untrained, lazy and stupid. You might know your child better than anyone, but we know our field better than you.

Work on reading comprehension. Nobody said you were untrained. What was said is if someone gets an expert in the field-someone who is a world renowned researcher, clinician and professor, it is ignorant of you to claim to know more and not even listen. Also, research is useless if it isn't published. Publication at least ensures your research methods, stats and sample sizes were decent. Anyone can claim to have conducted a research study.

you proved my point with your condecending comment "work on reading comprehension".
Someone on this thread called SPED professionals untrained using that exact word.

I said it, and I stand by it. The lack of knowledge of people who are allegedly SLPs and reading specialists and psychologists is revolting. You bring in actual PhD researchers, and they just blow the school personnel out of the water.

Come on lady, time to get off that high horse.

Those research do know a lot about research...and wouldn't survive a week in an actual classroom.

The real question in this thread is, Why do special ed parents seem to condescend to the teachers, therapists?

Totally agree. Researching and practical application in real life settings with children are totally different

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps we have an attitude to some parents in reaction to what is so obvious on this thread. So many of you think we're untrained, lazy and stupid. You might know your child better than anyone, but we know our field better than you.

Work on reading comprehension. Nobody said you were untrained. What was said is if someone gets an expert in the field-someone who is a world renowned researcher, clinician and professor, it is ignorant of you to claim to know more and not even listen. Also, research is useless if it isn't published. Publication at least ensures your research methods, stats and sample sizes were decent. Anyone can claim to have conducted a research study.

you proved my point with your condecending comment "work on reading comprehension".
Someone on this thread called SPED professionals untrained using that exact word.

I said it, and I stand by it. The lack of knowledge of people who are allegedly SLPs and reading specialists and psychologists is revolting. You bring in actual PhD researchers, and they just blow the school personnel out of the water.

Come on lady, time to get off that high horse.

Those research do know a lot about research...and wouldn't survive a week in an actual classroom.

The real question in this thread is, Why do special ed parents seem to condescend to the teachers, therapists?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, I don't know because I've never had a bad experience though I have clicked better with some than others. Are you just unlucky or am I lucky? Who knows.

So I'd say because people suck everywhere in every profession.

This. It's ridiculous to make vast generalizations based on limited experience, OP.

I've been at this quite awhile. I've dealt with a lot of "professionals" over the past 15 years. And yes, many of them have very low expectations of SN kids.

Right, you = n of 1--that's limited experience.

She's not alone. Most parents become experts of their kids, and understanding of others' needs as well. Which means that unless the SPED has LDs herself, or SN kids, she will perhaps not have the best approach. And then, sometimes SPED teachers with SN kids want to lump every kid they meet with their own kids! So there's never a set rule, except this one:
Many sped teachers don't get it.

That's one option.

Another is that parents themselves don't get it -- they believe their particular snowfllake is the center of the universe.

Sorry, that's not how schools work.

If you don't like it, and you believe you know it all, simply go the homeschooling route.

How ugly a thought on a SN forum.

The law is LRE and a FAPE, which includes specialized therapies that allow chidlren to access the curriculum. And parents have every right to insist on those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SLP is terrible at our school. Despite documented concerns for years, she denies any speech issues and says its attention. After several evaluations and years of therapy, she is the only one commenting this. Our special ed teacher seems great but most I have met are not and most general ed teachers because they don't know each disorder generally lump all SN kids together and assume the worst vs. the best. Many don't like parents who are involved and advocate.

I am wondering if your kid is at the same school as mine. She was obsessed with attention. Mainstream TEACHER who had my kid all day agreed the issue was language and not attention, but miss know it all could not let it go even when her own testing showed otherwise. I basically (in front of the IEP team) told her we see some of the top people in the country and even the world and they feel our child needs SLT and attention is not the issue. We have documentation of this in the file. Some of them are highly regarded researchers and professors. What makes you think you know more than they do? Please share your research and publications on the subject matter.

OMG. Not the OP here but we encountered the same type of issue in our school system. Outside evaluations (multiple evaluations that showed the same speech-language issues) and input from top professionals from top institutions (not hand-picked private professionals) didn't matter to our school system - they insisted against all evidence that DC didn't have speech-language issues at all. It's maddening.

Your private evaluations may show that there is a speech-language issue, but that doesn't mean your child will qualify for service. The SLPs are bound by certain qualification criteria. Other students may benefit from treatment, but that doesn't mean we can provide service in the schools. Sadly, that is what private therapy is for. Also, speech-pathologists in the county are not allowed to qualify a student based on assessments completed by a profession who is not an SLP. Psychologist often use tests that are more of a screening and not specific enough to language. So, they are required to do further testing even if they'd like to provide service. Believe me, testing takes a long time and takes the student away from instruction. We'd love to use your testing from the private psych, but simply are not allowed to. A private SLP may identify a speech-language weakness, but if the scores don't meat qualification criteria (which are very low), then our hands are tied. Not receiving school service is not an indication that your child would not benefit from treatment. We are simply limited to providing service only to those students whose difficulties can be identified as a disability which negatively impacts education and requires the specialized service of an SLP. As students reach MS and HS, they have more academic English classes and we are not allowed to bill for services which can reasonably be provided by someone else. Sometimes, that is the English teacher. For instance, we are not supposed to make IEP goals for reading even though SLPs have extensive training in this area, but MCPS have reading specialist who can target this area and they are easier to come by. There is always an SLP shortage.

We turned in several evaluations including a recent one from this summer from an SLP. The school SLP said she didn't see an language issue despite this child having serious language issues and only recently began talking. She was very clear she was not going to assist and was very annoyed we were even asking for services. It made no sense when the primary issue is language, the teachers supported the request and the SLP is saying that the test scores are fine (when they are not).

I can't really comment on that without knowing more details. Sorry. I do agree that some SLPs are less motivated than others. Unfortunately, caseloads typically grow, often substantially, over the course of the year and the SLP does not get additional help. So, more work in less time. Allocations for schools are made in January and a lot can change by the end of the year. Add in medical billing, IEP meetings, Speech Service meetings, paperwork, and prep time and you're left with barely any time to actually provide service. It's very frustrating. I am sorry that you've had a hard time.

It's actually illegal for school systems to limit Special Education Services based on allocations. Services are supposed to be based on a child's needs. If a child needs services that the school system is not equipped to provide, then the school system has a responsibility to pay for private services.

To challenge the school's SLP's diagnosis, the parent needs to get a private SLP eval then have that person come to the IEP meeting to explain their findings and recommendations. I have also found when a school is shirking their responsibilities, asking a question such as "I hear you have limited resources and will have difficulty meeting my child's needs, but doesn't the school system have to consider my child's needs and not resources availability when making IEP decisions?" "Isn't paying for private services an option if there is not enough SLP hours available within the school setting?" Make sure your questions are documented in the IEP notes (tape record the meeting if necessary) and their answers are on record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps we have an attitude to some parents in reaction to what is so obvious on this thread. So many of you think we're untrained, lazy and stupid. You might know your child better than anyone, but we know our field better than you.

Work on reading comprehension. Nobody said you were untrained. What was said is if someone gets an expert in the field-someone who is a world renowned researcher, clinician and professor, it is ignorant of you to claim to know more and not even listen. Also, research is useless if it isn't published. Publication at least ensures your research methods, stats and sample sizes were decent. Anyone can claim to have conducted a research study.

you proved my point with your condecending comment "work on reading comprehension".
Someone on this thread called SPED professionals untrained using that exact word.

I said it, and I stand by it. The lack of knowledge of people who are allegedly SLPs and reading specialists and psychologists is revolting. You bring in actual PhD researchers, and they just blow the school personnel out of the water.

Come on lady, time to get off that high horse.

Those research do know a lot about research...and wouldn't survive a week in an actual classroom.

The real question in this thread is, Why do special ed parents seem to condescend to the teachers, therapists?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps we have an attitude to some parents in reaction to what is so obvious on this thread. So many of you think we're untrained, lazy and stupid. You might know your child better than anyone, but we know our field better than you.

Work on reading comprehension. Nobody said you were untrained. What was said is if someone gets an expert in the field-someone who is a world renowned researcher, clinician and professor, it is ignorant of you to claim to know more and not even listen. Also, research is useless if it isn't published. Publication at least ensures your research methods, stats and sample sizes were decent. Anyone can claim to have conducted a research study.

you proved my point with your condecending comment "work on reading comprehension".
Someone on this thread called SPED professionals untrained using that exact word.

I said it, and I stand by it. The lack of knowledge of people who are allegedly SLPs and reading specialists and psychologists is revolting. You bring in actual PhD researchers, and they just blow the school personnel out of the water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, I don't know because I've never had a bad experience though I have clicked better with some than others. Are you just unlucky or am I lucky? Who knows.

So I'd say because people suck everywhere in every profession.

This. It's ridiculous to make vast generalizations based on limited experience, OP.

I've been at this quite awhile. I've dealt with a lot of "professionals" over the past 15 years. And yes, many of them have very low expectations of SN kids.

Right, you = n of 1--that's limited experience.

She's not alone. Most parents become experts of their kids, and understanding of others' needs as well. Which means that unless the SPED has LDs herself, or SN kids, she will perhaps not have the best approach. And then, sometimes SPED teachers with SN kids want to lump every kid they meet with their own kids! So there's never a set rule, except this one:
Many sped teachers don't get it.

That's one option.

Another is that parents themselves don't get it -- they believe their particular snowfllake is the center of the universe.

Sorry, that's not how schools work.

If you don't like it, and you believe you know it all, simply go the homeschooling route.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps we have an attitude to some parents in reaction to what is so obvious on this thread. So many of you think we're untrained, lazy and stupid. You might know your child better than anyone, but we know our field better than you.

Work on reading comprehension. Nobody said you were untrained. What was said is if someone gets an expert in the field-someone who is a world renowned researcher, clinician and professor, it is ignorant of you to claim to know more and not even listen. Also, research is useless if it isn't published. Publication at least ensures your research methods, stats and sample sizes were decent. Anyone can claim to have conducted a research study.

you proved my point with your condecending comment "work on reading comprehension".
Someone on this thread called SPED professionals untrained using that exact word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Um, I don't know because I've never had a bad experience though I have clicked better with some than others. Are you just unlucky or am I lucky? Who knows.

So I'd say because people suck everywhere in every profession.

This. It's ridiculous to make vast generalizations based on limited experience, OP.

I've been at this quite awhile. I've dealt with a lot of "professionals" over the past 15 years. And yes, many of them have very low expectations of SN kids.

Right, you = n of 1--that's limited experience.

She's not alone. Most parents become experts of their kids, and understanding of others' needs as well. Which means that unless the SPED has LDs herself, or SN kids, she will perhaps not have the best approach. And then, sometimes SPED teachers with SN kids want to lump every kid they meet with their own kids! So there's never a set rule, except this one:
Many sped teachers don't get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SLP is terrible at our school. Despite documented concerns for years, she denies any speech issues and says its attention. After several evaluations and years of therapy, she is the only one commenting this. Our special ed teacher seems great but most I have met are not and most general ed teachers because they don't know each disorder generally lump all SN kids together and assume the worst vs. the best. Many don't like parents who are involved and advocate.

I am wondering if your kid is at the same school as mine. She was obsessed with attention. Mainstream TEACHER who had my kid all day agreed the issue was language and not attention, but miss know it all could not let it go even when her own testing showed otherwise. I basically (in front of the IEP team) told her we see some of the top people in the country and even the world and they feel our child needs SLT and attention is not the issue. We have documentation of this in the file. Some of them are highly regarded researchers and professors. What makes you think you know more than they do? Please share your research and publications on the subject matter.

OMG. Not the OP here but we encountered the same type of issue in our school system. Outside evaluations (multiple evaluations that showed the same speech-language issues) and input from top professionals from top institutions (not hand-picked private professionals) didn't matter to our school system - they insisted against all evidence that DC didn't have speech-language issues at all. It's maddening.

Your private evaluations may show that there is a speech-language issue, but that doesn't mean your child will qualify for service. The SLPs are bound by certain qualification criteria. Other students may benefit from treatment, but that doesn't mean we can provide service in the schools. Sadly, that is what private therapy is for. Also, speech-pathologists in the county are not allowed to qualify a student based on assessments completed by a profession who is not an SLP. Psychologist often use tests that are more of a screening and not specific enough to language. So, they are required to do further testing even if they'd like to provide service. Believe me, testing takes a long time and takes the student away from instruction. We'd love to use your testing from the private psych, but simply are not allowed to. A private SLP may identify a speech-language weakness, but if the scores don't meat qualification criteria (which are very low), then our hands are tied. Not receiving school service is not an indication that your child would not benefit from treatment. We are simply limited to providing service only to those students whose difficulties can be identified as a disability which negatively impacts education and requires the specialized service of an SLP. As students reach MS and HS, they have more academic English classes and we are not allowed to bill for services which can reasonably be provided by someone else. Sometimes, that is the English teacher. For instance, we are not supposed to make IEP goals for reading even though SLPs have extensive training in this area, but MCPS have reading specialist who can target this area and they are easier to come by. There is always an SLP shortage.

We turned in several evaluations including a recent one from this summer from an SLP. The school SLP said she didn't see an language issue despite this child having serious language issues and only recently began talking. She was very clear she was not going to assist and was very annoyed we were even asking for services. It made no sense when the primary issue is language, the teachers supported the request and the SLP is saying that the test scores are fine (when they are not).

I can't really comment on that without knowing more details. Sorry. I do agree that some SLPs are less motivated than others. Unfortunately, caseloads typically grow, often substantially, over the course of the year and the SLP does not get additional help. So, more work in less time. Allocations for schools are made in January and a lot can change by the end of the year. Add in medical billing, IEP meetings, Speech Service meetings, paperwork, and prep time and you're left with barely any time to actually provide service. It's very frustrating. I am sorry that you've had a hard time.

It's actually illegal for school systems to limit Special Education Services based on allocations. Services are supposed to be based on a child's needs. If a child needs services that the school system is not equipped to provide, then the school system has a responsibility to pay for private services.

To challenge the school's SLP's diagnosis, the parent needs to get a private SLP eval then have that person come to the IEP meeting to explain their findings and recommendations. I have also found when a school is shirking their responsibilities, asking a question such as "I hear you have limited resources and will have difficulty meeting my child's needs, but doesn't the school system have to consider my child's needs and not resources availability when making IEP decisions?" "Isn't paying for private services an option if there is not enough SLP hours available within the school setting?" Make sure your questions are documented in the IEP notes (tape record the meeting if necessary) and their answers are on record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SLP is terrible at our school. Despite documented concerns for years, she denies any speech issues and says its attention. After several evaluations and years of therapy, she is the only one commenting this. Our special ed teacher seems great but most I have met are not and most general ed teachers because they don't know each disorder generally lump all SN kids together and assume the worst vs. the best. Many don't like parents who are involved and advocate.

I am wondering if your kid is at the same school as mine. She was obsessed with attention. Mainstream TEACHER who had my kid all day agreed the issue was language and not attention, but miss know it all could not let it go even when her own testing showed otherwise. I basically (in front of the IEP team) told her we see some of the top people in the country and even the world and they feel our child needs SLT and attention is not the issue. We have documentation of this in the file. Some of them are highly regarded researchers and professors. What makes you think you know more than they do? Please share your research and publications on the subject matter.

OMG. Not the OP here but we encountered the same type of issue in our school system. Outside evaluations (multiple evaluations that showed the same speech-language issues) and input from top professionals from top institutions (not hand-picked private professionals) didn't matter to our school system - they insisted against all evidence that DC didn't have speech-language issues at all. It's maddening.

Your private evaluations may show that there is a speech-language issue, but that doesn't mean your child will qualify for service. The SLPs are bound by certain qualification criteria. Other students may benefit from treatment, but that doesn't mean we can provide service in the schools. Sadly, that is what private therapy is for. Also, speech-pathologists in the county are not allowed to qualify a student based on assessments completed by a profession who is not an SLP. Psychologist often use tests that are more of a screening and not specific enough to language. So, they are required to do further testing even if they'd like to provide service. Believe me, testing takes a long time and takes the student away from instruction. We'd love to use your testing from the private psych, but simply are not allowed to. A private SLP may identify a speech-language weakness, but if the scores don't meat qualification criteria (which are very low), then our hands are tied. Not receiving school service is not an indication that your child would not benefit from treatment. We are simply limited to providing service only to those students whose difficulties can be identified as a disability which negatively impacts education and requires the specialized service of an SLP. As students reach MS and HS, they have more academic English classes and we are not allowed to bill for services which can reasonably be provided by someone else. Sometimes, that is the English teacher. For instance, we are not supposed to make IEP goals for reading even though SLPs have extensive training in this area, but MCPS have reading specialist who can target this area and they are easier to come by. There is always an SLP shortage.

We turned in several evaluations including a recent one from this summer from an SLP. The school SLP said she didn't see an language issue despite this child having serious language issues and only recently began talking. She was very clear she was not going to assist and was very annoyed we were even asking for services. It made no sense when the primary issue is language, the teachers supported the request and the SLP is saying that the test scores are fine (when they are not).

I can't really comment on that without knowing more details. Sorry. I do agree that some SLPs are less motivated than others. Unfortunately, caseloads typically grow, often substantially, over the course of the year and the SLP does not get additional help. So, more work in less time. Allocations for schools are made in January and a lot can change by the end of the year. Add in medical billing, IEP meetings, Speech Service meetings, paperwork, and prep time and you're left with barely any time to actually provide service. It's very frustrating. I am sorry that you've had a hard time.