Anonymous wrote:

It might not get you exactly what you want, no. But we don't always get exactly what we want. Getting divorced definitely won't get you exactly what you want.

You can't make another person care about the things you care about, you just can't. If you are enabling him in any way by doing things for him and even for the household, you have to stop immediately. Let him experience the consequences of his actions, even if it impacts you, too. Holding everything together is obviously killing you, so try something different. Again, getting divorced certainly ins't going to make your life any easier or make him more involved.

Regarding your kids, they can certainly take student loans. They won't die, lot's of people do it. Or you can contribute your income towards their college if you choose to do so. You don't have to like your husband's priorities, but there really isn't anything you can do about it. Nagging and demanding and begging is not a winning strategy in the long term and will only make things worse. If you feel resentful about it, then stop doing things for him that he expects and wants. When he asks about it, say "I don't really feel like doing these things for a man who won't support his children's future, sorry" matter of factly and unemotionally, and let him decide how to proceed. He will probably be absolutely shocked that he can't control you with your own needs and demands anymore. THAT is when people change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

The number one thing is to take a step back and become more self-sufficient. Do the things you would do if you were single to make yourself happy and take care of yourself. Stop trying to pick at your spouse to meet your needs.

People on the board have mentioned it before, but the book Passionate Marriage is an outstanding book. It's tedious to read and a bit meandering but well worth it.
Good luck to you.

I am self sufficient. I have a great job and several hobbies I'm passionate about. But that doesn't get the kids parented by both of us (I've mentioned elsewhere that he refused to get involved in talking to them when we found a pot pipe), their college tuition paid (he makes $150k but doesn't want to contribute to college) or the house cleaned. These aren't "my needs", they're the family's needs and I don't see how you can blame me for "picking on him" to get him to pitch in.

PS. In fact, it's exhausting to run 90% of the house and the kids' lives by myself, to the point where some days it's hard to find the energy to pursue my own passions as you suggest. The oldest, the only one in college so far, is in an expensive college (top 5 USNWR) that DH initially refused to contribute a penny to until I "picked on him" to contribute a fairly pathetic amount relative to his income, with the upshot that I spend almost all my own (decent) income on tuition for the school oldest DC worked so hard to get into. Where DH's income goes has long been a mystery that he refuses to explain (he denies having an affair but who really knows). How is this fair, and why shouldn't I be resentful? How is this a good marriage?

PPS. I begged for counseling but he refused. Yes, he checked out of the marriage and out of parenting responsibilities long ago. "Pursuing my own passions" and letting him be him isn't going to fix this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

The number one thing is to take a step back and become more self-sufficient. Do the things you would do if you were single to make yourself happy and take care of yourself. Stop trying to pick at your spouse to meet your needs.

People on the board have mentioned it before, but the book Passionate Marriage is an outstanding book. It's tedious to read and a bit meandering but well worth it.
Good luck to you.

I am self sufficient. I have a great job and several hobbies I'm passionate about. But that doesn't get the kids parented by both of us (I've mentioned elsewhere that he refused to get involved in talking to them when we found a pot pipe), their college tuition paid (he makes $150k but doesn't want to contribute to college) or the house cleaned. These aren't "my needs", they're the family's needs and I don't see how you can blame me for "picking on him" to get him to pitch in.

PS. In fact, it's exhausting to run 90% of the house and the kids' lives by myself, to the point where some days it's hard to find the energy to pursue my own passions as you suggest. The oldest, the only one in college so far, is in an expensive college (top 5 USNWR) that DH initially refused to contribute a penny to until I "picked on him" to contribute a fairly pathetic amount relative to his income, with the upshot that I spend almost all my own (decent) income on tuition for the school oldest DC worked so hard to get into. Where DH's income goes has long been a mystery that he refuses to explain (he denies having an affair but who really knows). How is this fair, and why shouldn't I be resentful? How is this a good marriage?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

The number one thing is to take a step back and become more self-sufficient. Do the things you would do if you were single to make yourself happy and take care of yourself. Stop trying to pick at your spouse to meet your needs.

People on the board have mentioned it before, but the book Passionate Marriage is an outstanding book. It's tedious to read and a bit meandering but well worth it.
Good luck to you.

I am self sufficient. I have a great job and several hobbies I'm passionate about. But that doesn't get the kids parented by both of us (I've mentioned elsewhere that he refused to get involved in talking to them when we found a pot pipe), their college tuition paid (he makes $150k but doesn't want to contribute to college) or the house cleaned. These aren't "my needs", they're the family's needs and I don't see how you can blame me for "picking on him" to get him to pitch in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

The number one thing is to take a step back and become more self-sufficient. Do the things you would do if you were single to make yourself happy and take care of yourself. Stop trying to pick at your spouse to meet your needs.

People on the board have mentioned it before, but the book Passionate Marriage is an outstanding book. It's tedious to read and a bit meandering but well worth it.
Good luck to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

The number one thing is to take a step back and become more self-sufficient. Do the things you would do if you were single to make yourself happy and take care of yourself. Stop trying to pick at your spouse to meet your needs.

People on the board have mentioned it before, but the book Passionate Marriage is an outstanding book. It's tedious to read and a bit meandering but well worth it.
Good luck to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.

1. I put up with it for our kids. Also because I was terrified of sharing custody with him, given his lack of parenting and other skills.
2. OK genius, how DO you save a marriage when one of the parties isn't interested in working on it? What magical "things" does one do to make him change and want to work on it? Maybe you could write a book and make millions, because millions of other people have been unable to figure this out. Enlighten us all.

Anonymous wrote:NP

I find it very disheartening that people don't get that while no one ever deserves to be treated badly that there are actually strategies to command respect. If someone is treating you badly for years, you are complicit at some point and need to learn these strategies.

The culture of victimhood and indignation is not helpful to anyone. When you embody this it feels in the short term like you are taking control back, but it's actually weak and self-destructive (and destructive of others as well).

Lastly, the whole "I didn't want to model that to my kids" excuse is nauseating and I'm so tired of reading about it here. Model figuring it out to your kids.

And no, you actually CAN save a marriage even if one spouse refuses to participate. You can do things to make them WANT to work on it. Most people just prefer indignation, it's a cheap thrill frankly.