OP---if you are tired of the rat race, etc...then look to smaller areas in the country, if schools are so important to you, there are amazing schools in the rest of the country, not just DC....and as another person mentioned, its not necessarily the schools, as much as what the parent does also, (set expectations for the child, etc)---you are just wasting money on everything in DC, the house, the schools, etc....and in smaller areas, even if the salary is down some? ---you make up for it, in less that you pay for your mortgage, less for schools, less for food, etc....less in OVERALL expenses!!!!! Heck, you can even live like Royalty in another country, (many beautiful countries) for $400. a MONTH TOTAL......house, food, transportation, etc....LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT, if you want out of the rat race, GET OUT, you will be HAPPIER!!!!!!!!!

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You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

There was maybe one farming family in my graduating class. If you want your kid to succeed, don't let them hang out with the losers, set expectations and encourage them to do their best. For the poster that brought up drugs - they are everywhere. The difference is in the rich schools, parents can afford better lawyers.

1) so who exactly made up your graduating class if not farmers? Farm hands and meat packing workers? And most kids went to college, that's quite a school, where was it!
2) how old are your kids? By teens telling them to not 'hang out with loser' is a battle you may not win unless you clamp down their lives and supervise them every minute.

1.) Did not imply that everyone had massive success - PP made a comment regarding farmers, I addressed that comment.
2.) I don't have kids, but my parents did parent me. They didn't tell me that straight up, but they set expectations and followed through on consequences. The smart kids who are still there...their parents either weren't around or didn't care enough to follow through with consequences. Again, this is relevant no matter where you go to school. I went to a very expensive college and there were plenty of smart, rich kids constantly making bad life choices (drugs, etc.).

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One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

I posted earlier about being ready to make an escape but this is something I struggle with. It's not just the stability and good pay, it's all that with a job I love in public service, which is important to me. But spending time with my kids also is important to me, and I hate living in unwalkable neighborhoods with a long commute. Sometimes I think I could be perfectly happy being a secretary for the local dentist in some small New England town.

PP, honestly I've been looking at jobs in Fairfax and Arlington Counties lately because I too am drawn to public service but I feel like its a place where I can point to something I actually can get done that HELPS someone, in a real and more immediate sense. Just saying that the national scale is not the only way to effect change, if anything I feel like my friends who work at the state level in various states are really hustling for the people more than I ever have.

This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

YES, thank you for this, I needed to read it. Its not true for everyone, some may vehemently disagree. But its making me even more convinced that I really want to go after a job that is decidedly low prestige by comparison and work at the county or state level. I'm trying to get a new job now (been home for 8 months with the baby after leaving something dead end), thanks for the boost with your post!

PS_sorry I keep posting to this thread!

Anonymous wrote:What is "the DC thing"? I do live near Zumba instructors and electricians and those people a pp mentioned. We aren't in a rat race. We have much more than we need in a lovely home in Silver Spring. I have traveled a lot on the west coast, in the south, and in New England and I haven't seen any magical places where the real quality of life for us would be better. But I have seen places where you can buy bigger houses and live near more white people.

I'm a PP who was talking about looking to do public service jobs at the county level and I get this a lot. Not so much the reference that every place smaller is less diverse, I come from a dying sort of shit hole former defense boom small city in the northeast and its super diverse, my high school was like the UN, granted it wasn't high SES, a lot of the people were 1st, 2nd generation refugee pops. but still divese.

Anyway, I live in the burbs here and we don't feel rat race like at all because we aren't in industries that are connected to contracting or , federal government, I think that helps. Also, even though our hood sells for about 500-650K now it didn't always so there are plenty of people who have been here for 15-20 years with jobs and not careers, which I like.

I like it here a lot even though I will probably leave, but that's because we want to live in the same city as siblings, but if they could move here I would be perfectly happy.

I'm considering a job in Boston - but I don't feel like it gets me to any better quality of life (although it will put me closer to family). I'd actually probably have a longer commute to afford anything decent. UGH

I disagree. After 15 plus years in DC we have found the greater Boston area to be easier--less crime, metro not imploding, better schools.
You can get a pretty nice 3 to 4 bedroom house near the beach in Swampscott for 500-700k, walkable to good public schools, very little crime, take the train (30 min) to north station. You cant really do that in DC.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

I disagree. A job is a job. If I'm going to work I may as well be challenged, have upward mobility and get paid well. I would still work if I moved to a smaller town but lose a lot of these things. I work for a US wide firm and see how much faster employees are promoted in bigger cities. I'm much younger but the same level as many much older employees in smaller cities.

I feel like with a smaller city or town you're just swapping one set of challenges for another. Maybe you face less traffic but then you have to drive greater distances to go where you need to go. Maybe work is less hectic but then there are fewer opportunities and other employers. Maybe childcare is cheaper but then more women stay home and there's a stigma to working. I have lived in a few different cities and think DC is great. There are a ton of jobs here and the cost of living isn't that bad compared to NY or SF.

I think many of the people who complain about DC have never lived in a place like NY or London and have no idea how good they have it here. Unfortunately, life as an adult is hard and will be hard anywhere. Having kids and working isn't going to be easy no matter where you are.

And there in lies the weird DC attitude. "Life is just going to be tough from ages 25-65, and DC is better than NY, so just suck it up for 30 more years until you retire." Well, life wasn't tough at all for us when we lived in a small town with kids. Everything was SO EASY. And because we had DC home equity, and DC resumes, we were pretty well paid relative to a lot of people living there. Even if we were making less than we would if we stayed in DC. Most people I know who move elsewhere find that life is a lot easier. It's a DC/NY/SF myth that life has to be shitty and tough while you have kids.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

I disagree. A job is a job. If I'm going to work I may as well be challenged, have upward mobility and get paid well. I would still work if I moved to a smaller town but lose a lot of these things. I work for a US wide firm and see how much faster employees are promoted in bigger cities. I'm much younger but the same level as many much older employees in smaller cities.

I feel like with a smaller city or town you're just swapping one set of challenges for another. Maybe you face less traffic but then you have to drive greater distances to go where you need to go. Maybe work is less hectic but then there are fewer opportunities and other employers. Maybe childcare is cheaper but then more women stay home and there's a stigma to working. I have lived in a few different cities and think DC is great. There are a ton of jobs here and the cost of living isn't that bad compared to NY or SF.

I think many of the people who complain about DC have never lived in a place like NY or London and have no idea how good they have it here. Unfortunately, life as an adult is hard and will be hard anywhere. Having kids and working isn't going to be easy no matter where you are.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

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This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

+1 - also - the PP criticizing DCers needing "important" jobs - she has one! While it does seem that she has some perspective on it - I question why she still has it. Is it that easy to walk away from? Does she not find satisfaction from it?

I'm the PP you're responded to with the "important" job. I'm also one of the previous PPs who said we are absolutely walking away from it all. In fact, my husband last year quit his job -- which was arguably the most high profile role in his entire niche industry, to work a less high profile job with better hours and less travel and the ability to work from home. Straight up told his employer and industry that he wanted more time with his family. Now that he works from home, we have a firm plan to move our of state to a less exciting region next summer. I will probably ask my employer if I can work from home - and they'll say yes, but it won't be long term viable (in that, over time i'll become more removed from the action, fall off people's radars, get less interesting work). but I figure i'll eke 3 years out like that. Then I have a few plans to do some consulting part time stuff, figure I can eke out 60-100k per year working maybe 30 hours a week. So we plan to be gone from DC by age 40, and then absolutely not working in "career jobs" by age 50. Like pseudo retired. But probably still doing some income generating activities. We could give a shit about the satisfaction we get from our jobs at this point. We've been deriving satisfaction for 20 years. At this point, the one thing that has provided consistent and high level satisfaction for us is each other and our leisure time. So that's what we're aiming for.

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You need to MOVE, move to a different state, small town---you know, where you can buy 5 bedroom homes for at the MOST, $78,000--yes, 78,000.....plus land to go with it.....NO REGRETS AT ALL !!!!! Only a 15 minute commute.

To a job in what field, and with what salary?

And schools?? That so what traps us here, low COL generally means and school quality.

People worry too much about this. I grew up in rural part of the Midwest. My bff from college (we went to a top national school) came from the best public schools in NJ. I graduated with a higher GPA than her (and yes, we both took college seriously). To a large degree, it is what you put into it. Was I a bit behind freshmen year, sure. Did I end up graduating in the top 5% of the business school, yes.

Your kid is not doomed for failure if they don't have the best schools ever.

Yes, but didn't they teach you statistics in business school? The odds are less favorable. Peer effects are real.

And rural Midwest is generally fairly higher SES since its farmers who are essentially small business owners. I doubt you were going to school with from hands.

There was maybe one farming family in my graduating class. If you want your kid to succeed, don't let them hang out with the losers, set expectations and encourage them to do their best. For the poster that brought up drugs - they are everywhere. The difference is in the rich schools, parents can afford better lawyers.

1) so who exactly made up your graduating class if not farmers? Farm hands and meat packing workers? And most kids went to college, that's quite a school, where was it!
2) how old are your kids? By teens telling them to not 'hang out with loser' is a battle you may not win unless you clamp down their lives and supervise them every minute.

1.) Did not imply that everyone had massive success - PP made a comment regarding farmers, I addressed that comment.
2.) I don't have kids, but my parents did parent me. They didn't tell me that straight up, but they set expectations and followed through on consequences. The smart kids who are still there...their parents either weren't around or didn't care enough to follow through with consequences. Again, this is relevant no matter where you go to school. I went to a very expensive college and there were plenty of smart, rich kids constantly making bad life choices (drugs, etc.).

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This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

+1 - also - the PP criticizing DCers needing "important" jobs - she has one! While it does seem that she has some perspective on it - I question why she still has it. Is it that easy to walk away from? Does she not find satisfaction from it?

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

The D.C.thing is old to us as well. You know the cost is high and the traffic is bad, along with the humidity. It's a politically correct, segregated, self serving, soulless kind of place filled with transients here to feed off the federal job, get power in an insignificant federal office, military service people with the housing subsidies, or students here to save the world. Then we have the army of immigrants to service them and do the actual work of raising kids, cutting lawns, working trades, etc.

As soon as we leave some sucker millennials will take our place. Some enjoy the politics and the power trip, but many who claim to like itv here sort of rationalize that idea, and get quite defensive when faced with a feeling of cognitive dissonance. Time to move on. The question is once you leave do you miss the misery?

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This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!