I have noticed that electronics can have a terrible effect on behavior of some children. I would start by letting him have the phone on a limited and earned schedule. He gets an hour or so a day, unless he loses it. If it's lost, it's a minimum of 1 day. Cutting electronics will piss him off, but you should see better behavior in less than a week.

Some kids can handle a phone or iPad. Other kids are negatively affected by them.

I grew up in a similar family dynamic (I was the "docile" younger brother).

In our case, I think it was just a particular mesh of certain personality types. My father and I are fairly easy going and affable. My older brother, and mother, have more assertive, combative personalities, and were constantly arguing and fighting with each other.

At every family dinner, my mother would start critiquing my brother on something he did (poor table manners, said something vaguely rude, told a story from his day that reflected poorly on him) and it would just turn into a back and forth between the two.

He was difficult and immature, but my mother seems to have an OCDish compulsion to pick needless fights.

My father and I got along well, at least.

^^sorry I meant if dad isn't living there, I may have misread. If he us, he needs to step up bug time and be the enforcer.

Send him to live with daddy. Honest this worked for my difficult son, also 11. Made life easier for all. Boys need the tough hand of a father if at all feasible.

Anonymous wrote:I would be careful about all of the advice on here. If your child is typical with no emotional challenges, then the zero tolerance attitude may work. If your child has any issues, you may need to find what works for you. It is not a one size fits all parenting approach. Some parents think they know everything because they have kids that can be disciplined in the traditional way. It is very easy to be a perfect parent if you have easy (assuming the normal tween/teen stuff) kids. Ignore everyone here and get a therapist. And let your son know that you love him regardless of what he says and does, even if you don't feel it right now.

This. kids generally want to please the adults in their lives if they can. Your kid has been struggling since he was very small (so has mine, who is just 4). Anxiety and depression often look a lot like anger and irritability and boredom. Get an evaluation. Read the Kazdin Method.

Anonymous wrote:I took him once for help when he was 8, but was told to make him feel more "connected" to me, to "count."

I feel like this is the key but you overlooked it. Can you and DC1 do some things together without DC2? Whatever his favorite thing is, can you experience that with him and share in his enjoyment of it? My ds is almost that age and aside from the things you already said DC1 doesn't like you could try: youtube videos of people playing video games he likes; mini golf; amusement park; those video game/jumping places; a movie he wants to see; skating/skateboarding; playing his favorite video game with him; taking him to his favorite restaurant or together making his favorite food; swimming pool/swim park and going on the tube rides with him; listening to his favorite music.

Also, lots of positive reinforcement and not freaking out when he is disrespectful, but calmly saying something like, that's not how we speak to each other in this family, and meaning it (and modeling it).

Anonymous wrote:How does your husband treat you? With sarcasm and mockery? Because your son learns from him.

This.

Family therapy STAT with all four of you! Also, wondering if he is depressed, being bullied at school, or some other reason he is acting the way he is. It is NOT normal for a kid to not have a single friend.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just curious what your son does when he's not in school if he won't read at home, visit with friends, or take on any activity? I'm asking because I have a similar 12 year old who just wants to stare at his phone and it's very frustrating. It's a reason why I don't generally look forward to the summer. We send him to camps, but when he's home it's hard to get him to do anything. And, many of his good friends disappear for several weeks at sleep away camp, so he's can't hang with them anyway.

If he's going to camps, I would think some down-time at home is OK.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just curious what your son does when he's not in school if he won't read at home, visit with friends, or take on any activity? I'm asking because I have a similar 12 year old who just wants to stare at his phone and it's very frustrating. It's a reason why I don't generally look forward to the summer. We send him to camps, but when he's home it's hard to get him to do anything. And, many of his good friends disappear for several weeks at sleep away camp, so he's can't hang with them anyway.

He's 12 - make the phone disappear. Have a spine. It's bad for their brains.
My kid didn't get one until 17 when it was needed for work messages and it's still annoying and a time waster.
A 12 year old should be out somewhere doing something and using his brain.

I call B-S on that. Not a helpful response.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just curious what your son does when he's not in school if he won't read at home, visit with friends, or take on any activity? I'm asking because I have a similar 12 year old who just wants to stare at his phone and it's very frustrating. It's a reason why I don't generally look forward to the summer. We send him to camps, but when he's home it's hard to get him to do anything. And, many of his good friends disappear for several weeks at sleep away camp, so he's can't hang with them anyway.

He's 12 - make the phone disappear. Have a spine. It's bad for their brains.
My kid didn't get one until 17 when it was needed for work messages and it's still annoying and a time waster.
A 12 year old should be out somewhere doing something and using his brain.

I'm just curious what your son does when he's not in school if he won't read at home, visit with friends, or take on any activity? I'm asking because I have a similar 12 year old who just wants to stare at his phone and it's very frustrating. It's a reason why I don't generally look forward to the summer. We send him to camps, but when he's home it's hard to get him to do anything. And, many of his good friends disappear for several weeks at sleep away camp, so he's can't hang with them anyway.

I have a child like this. I put off therapy until 13 and now we REALLY need it. It's hard and I get it, but get him and your family to therapy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the fact that he's not this way with his father, I think the problem may be the way you parent, rather than him. How come his father doesn't get the attitude? There's something to that.

Also, as the parent of a 13 yr old, I'll gently suggest you pick your battles, and don't worry about his "I'm good" response. I don't care what my DD verbally says when I tell her to clean the bathroom as long as she does what I've told her to do. "I'm good" is not the hill to die on.

+1

There is some dislike in your tone, op, that he is hearing, too.

Some attitude is part of the age, and moms seem to get the brunt of it (perhaps because we get more than our share of the bad cop role in parenting?). I know with my kid that sometimes he hears anything I say as "you are a loser". I try to be careful how I say things because when he hears "you are a loser" he a)acts like one, and b) doesn't do what I asked. Mind you, sometimes I am saying something as harmless as "pass the salt" but sometimes I'm saying "you really need to study more for that test. You don't know the vocabulary yet" or "I asked you to clean the litter box."

True - Thanks for the reminder. I probably sound like I don't like him most of the time, just out of frustration, which is hardly motivational.

Yeah, you've gotta stop that. Figure out how to fake it. Teens can be fairly unlikeable (as is mine, a lot of the time). I also recommend the chapter on Yetser Hara in Blessings of a Skinned Knee. It is about finding your child's strengths in the places that frustrate you most. It helped me a lot. It is pegged for younger kids, but the advice here is spot on. (The book is pretty Jewish, but that doesn't diminish the value of her advice -- she just uses Jewish sources for inspiration and they are pretty good sources of wisdom.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Based on the fact that he's not this way with his father, I think the problem may be the way you parent, rather than him. How come his father doesn't get the attitude? There's something to that.

Also, as the parent of a 13 yr old, I'll gently suggest you pick your battles, and don't worry about his "I'm good" response. I don't care what my DD verbally says when I tell her to clean the bathroom as long as she does what I've told her to do. "I'm good" is not the hill to die on.

+1

There is some dislike in your tone, op, that he is hearing, too.

Some attitude is part of the age, and moms seem to get the brunt of it (perhaps because we get more than our share of the bad cop role in parenting?). I know with my kid that sometimes he hears anything I say as "you are a loser". I try to be careful how I say things because when he hears "you are a loser" he a)acts like one, and b) doesn't do what I asked. Mind you, sometimes I am saying something as harmless as "pass the salt" but sometimes I'm saying "you really need to study more for that test. You don't know the vocabulary yet" or "I asked you to clean the litter box."

True - Thanks for the reminder. I probably sound like I don't like him most of the time, just out of frustration, which is hardly motivational.