Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men are different from women. Digging deep just may not be possible in the same way it is for us. Where does that leave us? I don't know. He is who he is - take it or leave it. So sorry you are all going through this. I just don't know what I would do. Divorce is awful for kids. I was a child of divorce myself.

There is some truth to this.

OP, I could be your husband. I had about a year long affair about 6 years ago. Affair ended. Wife never found out. We are very happily married although I know many people here will dispute that is possible.

If you ask me candidly why did I do it, there was no existential reason - it was a combination of lack of sex in the marriage which comes standard with young kids, and wanting to feel desired again - something other than duty sex. I found another woman in a similar situation and we went for it. I liked and cared for my AP and I am sure some emails will be really hurtful if read today, but it wasn't some deep love affair.

There is no digging I could do, after the fact. I gave in to the same desires I have always had, that don't magically go away when marriage comes. It really was as simple as: beautiful available woman, penis took charge, lonely at home = affair. Its not a pathology. Men seem to understand this.

Good luck to you.

This makes sense to me.

OP, I stayed with my remorseful husband. He did everything right, went to therapy, acknowledged his own issues, etc. things were really wonderful for about 18 months. Then everything went south again. He didn't have another affair, but he withdrew from me, started avoiding me, and after about a year of that finally said he was unhappy and moved out.

He is, fundamentally, a very unhappy and insecure person. Am I the perfect wife-no. But anytime he's unhappy with anything (job, friends, marriage) his solution is to run. He seeks validation from external sources-always looking for the next experience or person that will fill up the emptiness inside him. Throw in 2 young kids and I couldn't give him the level of support that he needs to feel whole. In retrospect, I made a lot of mistakes in how I related to him-but I also know that he could have found ways to twist anything I did or said.

I find the whole thing heartbreaking. He is depressed, and he is on meds and in therapy, but he's struggled with this for years. He's a great person in many ways, but it makes him a lousy husband. I tolerated a lot, but this time apart has really opened my eyes as to how much harder things are when he's in the house and I'm always trying to reassure him, or keep the kids from bugging him, or wondering where the hell he is when he doesn't come home after work.

He's probably a better father now that he isn't busy avoiding me. I hate losing time with my kids, and I hate losing the good parts of my marriage, but I'm slowly and painfully coming to the realization that he isn't cut out for marriage-or at least not marriage to me. It devastates me that my kids are losing out on an intact family-but I also think it's better for them to have a father who doesn't hate me and to not watch us suffer through a bad marriage. I sincerely hope he finds happiness, though I worry of course that he's enjoying the temporary boost of new living circumstances, less responsibilities, etc but that it will wear off in a year or so and he'll be unhappy again but now without the support of his family to keep things going.

Not sure what you should do, OP. Maybe divorce, maybe not, you should get some individual counseling to figure out what you need to feel like yourself and what is best for your kids.
But...I do know that you cannot assume the blame and guilt if you end up divorced.
Yes, you are contemplating the decision and may make the decision but think about what led you to this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men are different from women. Digging deep just may not be possible in the same way it is for us. Where does that leave us? I don't know. He is who he is - take it or leave it. So sorry you are all going through this. I just don't know what I would do. Divorce is awful for kids. I was a child of divorce myself.

There is some truth to this.

OP, I could be your husband. I had about a year long affair about 6 years ago. Affair ended. Wife never found out. We are very happily married although I know many people here will dispute that is possible.

If you ask me candidly why did I do it, there was no existential reason - it was a combination of lack of sex in the marriage which comes standard with young kids, and wanting to feel desired again - something other than duty sex. I found another woman in a similar situation and we went for it. I liked and cared for my AP and I am sure some emails will be really hurtful if read today, but it wasn't some deep love affair.

There is no digging I could do, after the fact. I gave in to the same desires I have always had, that don't magically go away when marriage comes. It really was as simple as: beautiful available woman, penis took charge, lonely at home = affair. Its not a pathology. Men seem to understand this.

Good luck to you.

Perhaps reflects a difference between men and women. Women who have affairs are more emotionally involved ( deeper level?) with the affair partner and are therefore more likely to end the marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men are different from women. Digging deep just may not be possible in the same way it is for us. Where does that leave us? I don't know. He is who he is - take it or leave it. So sorry you are all going through this. I just don't know what I would do. Divorce is awful for kids. I was a child of divorce myself.

There is some truth to this.

OP, I could be your husband. I had about a year long affair about 6 years ago. Affair ended. Wife never found out. We are very happily married although I know many people here will dispute that is possible.

If you ask me candidly why did I do it, there was no existential reason - it was a combination of lack of sex in the marriage which comes standard with young kids, and wanting to feel desired again - something other than duty sex. I found another woman in a similar situation and we went for it. I liked and cared for my AP and I am sure some emails will be really hurtful if read today, but it wasn't some deep love affair.

There is no digging I could do, after the fact. I gave in to the same desires I have always had, that don't magically go away when marriage comes. It really was as simple as: beautiful available woman, penis took charge, lonely at home = affair. Its not a pathology. Men seem to understand this.

Good luck to you.

Op,if this sounds like your H run, divorce.... Get out.

This man has no clue. He thinks his circumstances caused his affair, which means he could do it again given the right circumstances.... All men/women feel this way at some point in their marriage....most are faithful, some are not.

He didn't even want his AP ... He treats women like something he uses and disposes.

The ones that can't figure out why they cheat, are simply put cheaters, that is what they do when the going get rough. Find a strong, faithful man.

He doesn't even have any awareness of who he is and why he does the things he does. It is very typical, men of our generation were raised to have no control or responsibility for how hey use other people.

Anonymous wrote:I think men are different from women. Digging deep just may not be possible in the same way it is for us. Where does that leave us? I don't know. He is who he is - take it or leave it. So sorry you are all going through this. I just don't know what I would do. Divorce is awful for kids. I was a child of divorce myself.

There is some truth to this.

OP, I could be your husband. I had about a year long affair about 6 years ago. Affair ended. Wife never found out. We are very happily married although I know many people here will dispute that is possible.

If you ask me candidly why did I do it, there was no existential reason - it was a combination of lack of sex in the marriage which comes standard with young kids, and wanting to feel desired again - something other than duty sex. I found another woman in a similar situation and we went for it. I liked and cared for my AP and I am sure some emails will be really hurtful if read today, but it wasn't some deep love affair.

There is no digging I could do, after the fact. I gave in to the same desires I have always had, that don't magically go away when marriage comes. It really was as simple as: beautiful available woman, penis took charge, lonely at home = affair. Its not a pathology. Men seem to understand this.

Good luck to you.

I think men are different from women. Digging deep just may not be possible in the same way it is for us. Where does that leave us? I don't know. He is who he is - take it or leave it. So sorry you are all going through this. I just don't know what I would do. Divorce is awful for kids. I was a child of divorce myself.

Read the unexpected legacy of divorce. It will help you decide. Divorce is life changing for the kids. No way around that. But there are ways to do it better and worse.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I could have written your post with only minor differences in the facts. And I think I'm in the exact same place you are. I just don't know if this is going to work. I'm working my ass off in therapy trying to figure it out.

One thing I've recently come to realize, though, is: My DH is remorseful in as much as he confessed, broke it off, says he's sorry, goes to therapy, buys me flowers, etc, etc. Yet I don't think he's really trying, or wants to try, to understand or change anything about himself that led this to happen. And that includes his share of the state of our relationship when he started the affair. He says he wants to fix things, but he just isn't digging deep and I can't tell if he can't, won't, or doesn't know how.

I've only recently realized how much this is contributing to my ambivalence. I think in part because it took until about month 4 to not be in full fledged panic. And until month 6 or so to realize I couldn't fix things on my own. I'm now coming to realize I can have some patience for him to get to these things, but it's not infinite. And at some point it's the right, selfish thing for me to move on. And that's the right choice for all of us in the end.

Maybe that's helpful perspective. At the very least, know you're not alone. Wishing you all the luck in finding the best path for you.

OP here. Thanks, PP. I feel the same way. If my husband would just do some soul searching and dig deep, I would be so more open. I asked him to do a few things (like more involvement in household planning issues) to help with the relationship generally and he really hasn't done them. One major thing I asked was for him to seek individual therapy, but he has only gone a couple of times over the past year and is very defeatist about it being worthwhile.

I wish there was an in-person support group where we could talk and drink bad coffee. My friends are amazing but I don't want to be a broken record.

OP, I could have written your post with only minor differences in the facts. And I think I'm in the exact same place you are. I just don't know if this is going to work. I'm working my ass off in therapy trying to figure it out.

One thing I've recently come to realize, though, is: My DH is remorseful in as much as he confessed, broke it off, says he's sorry, goes to therapy, buys me flowers, etc, etc. Yet I don't think he's really trying, or wants to try, to understand or change anything about himself that led this to happen. And that includes his share of the state of our relationship when he started the affair. He says he wants to fix things, but he just isn't digging deep and I can't tell if he can't, won't, or doesn't know how.

I've only recently realized how much this is contributing to my ambivalence. I think in part because it took until about month 4 to not be in full fledged panic. And until month 6 or so to realize I couldn't fix things on my own. I'm now coming to realize I can have some patience for him to get to these things, but it's not infinite. And at some point it's the right, selfish thing for me to move on. And that's the right choice for all of us in the end.

Maybe that's helpful perspective. At the very least, know you're not alone. Wishing you all the luck in finding the best path for you.

Anonymous wrote:Nobody was bewitched your husband and OP's husband made the choice to step out on you.

You and he have to acknowledged that if you want to move forward together.

Blaming the OW will only get you so far.

No, you misunderstand what I mean. Of course it was his choice. But in the aftermath of the choice, his reasoning and explanations about WHY he'd done it made no sense. He was attempting to justify (to himself - it certainly wasn't a justification I accepted) the reasons he had behaved as he did, as if there was a good explanation that would make it OK. It's a period of cognitive dissonance that the person who cheats goes through, when they are remorseful and yet can't seem to fully understand that it was wrong. The surviving infidelity board calls "the fog" and until the cheating spouse comes out of it, they can't take responsibility and you can't make a decision about how to move forward.

Maybe it's not the perspective you want, but I'll respond anyway. My dad is a cheater. My parents briefly divorced and I wish they would have stayed that way.

There is nothing more upsetting than being in the hospital not sure if your dad is going to make it and watching your mother fret over him , and the whole time you know he's cheating on her.
How do you know, well you read the explicit texts from the OW when you were trying to get his stuff squared away for work.
I'm certain I could have coped with a divorce as a kid than coping now with liars I have zero respect for.

Nobody was bewitched your husband and OP's husband made the choice to step out on you.

You and he have to acknowledged that if you want to move forward together.

Blaming the OW will only get you so far.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. The OW is married with three kids. My husband tells me that OW's husband confronted OW and she denied the affair, but OW's husband didn't really believe it. I have had no contact with him or OW. Husband claims he ended the affair because he felt crushing guilt, and that he ended things a couple of weeks before I asked him about it. I believe that somewhat because I read their emails (he let me right when he admitted it) and they show the same story. But who knows what he does now. I don't trust him but I also feel like if he wants to hide an affair he knows how to do it.

As for money, we make basically the same amount of money and I'm actually better off because I have no debt, while he has significant student loans that he never wanted my help with.

It's such a mess. PP who divorced after two years, what made you finally decide that? PP who is still with the husband six years later, do you have peace? Why are you so unsure of the future?

I'm the 6 yr PP. DH had a summerlong thing with a coworker. We had been married 8 years when it happened and had very young children. We had what I considered a good marriage, and I did not see it coming at all. It was shocking. I went from having total 100% trust in him to the foundation of my life crumbling.

I do have peace now. It took a long time. We separated, which was helpful, and we did couples counseling. DH switched to a non-travel role at work, which meant he no longer was able to see the coworker, who was in a different office. I took steps to verify that he didn't have contact with her. Once he came out of the "fog" (a term from the Surviving Infidelity board: like he was bewitched & irrational) he wanted to reconcile and live with me and the kids, and he was willing to demonstrate that.

Here's the thing, which is reflected in the uncertainty expressed in my first post. After you go through something like that your marriage isn't the same and doesn't go back to the way it was. I called it Marriage 2.0. I love him, and I trust him, but it's not the same kind of trust I had as a twentysomething getting married. I value his companionship, his abilities as a father, and having a partner for practical and emotional support. I don't necessarily expect as much as I once did from him, and I would never put myself in a financial position of dependency on him. It is not romantic, but in a surprising way it has made our relationship stronger.

I mentioned that we could still divorce because, well, we could. Not to be bleak, but anyone's marriage can end at any time, and there are no guarantees. Knowing that is the price of staying married.

Anonymous wrote:Broken people have affairs not people in broken marriages.

Your H is broken. If he does not go to individual therapy and stop blaming the marriage for the affair he will have another affair.

If his expectation is... If my marriage is perfect I will remain faithful, guess what... Nothing is perfect.

I normally say, go to therapy and try to save the marriage, but your H sounds sad it ended not sad it happened... So I would say divorce.

OP said her husband was remorseful, not sure why you want to rewrite history. It must be nice to see the world in black and white terms: cheaters = broken, faithful = innocent