Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I continue to be astounded by the vitriol on this post. My DS was dx'ed with MERLD under the old DSM and an auditory processing disorder by the GW audiology department. FFW was very effective for him. So was language therapy. I fail to see what is controversial and unhelpful about sharing with OP what worked in my DS's case.

I don't get it either. The OP asked a broadly based question about the relationship between autism and MERLD.

And before anyone jumps on my, OP also asked about other things. Point is, it was a very broad question that could be answered by a variety of experiences, whether you are a parent of an MERLD child or not.

Anonymous wrote:
I continue to be astounded by the vitriol on this post. My DS was dx'ed with MERLD under the old DSM and an auditory processing disorder by the GW audiology department. FFW was very effective for him. So was language therapy. I fail to see what is controversial and unhelpful about sharing with OP what worked in my DS's case.

I don't get it either. The OP asked a broadly based question about the relationship between autism and MERLD.

Every poster agreed that her child probably doesn't have autism and that she should stay away from autism treatment in general. One person said that speech therapy is indicated for both MERLD and autism. This seemed to set some people off, but speaking as parent whose child MAY have ASD (experts are not in agreement), it is unquestionably true. ASD not only is a spectrum, it also has an astonishing variety of manifestations and comorbid disorders, including either MERLD or something that looks a lot like it. If an ASD child has this MERLD-like condition, then the same therapies that work for MERLD would also likely work for this aspect of ASD. But the reverse is not true. ASD has other symptoms with treatments that would not be appropriate for MERLD children, which is why the correct diagnosis is very important. I don't see how this is controversial in any way.

And being that OP asked about autism, a discussion of autism vs. MERLD is certainly appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ADHD, dyslexia and a language disorder is not a rare combination of learning disabilities. Op's kid is in 6th grade so if the kid has ASD, it would have already been found.

Not sure why there is this debate about MERLD which no longer exists in the DSM vs ASD which OP's kid does not have except that there are always some MERLD posters on here who like to characterize MERLD in their younger kids as something they completely outgrow when their language issues are resolved. Language processing issues are rarely fully resolved.

We have hundreds of former members of our MERLD message boards who would disagree with you.

Research does not agree with that. Kids with language impairments improve but are not 100 percent the same as kids who are NT, even after the issues are "resolved"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

MERLD is no longer in the DSM. Children on the spectrum are NOT a "hot mess." It's a spectrum. There are degrees of severity.

For someone going on an outdated DSM has no ground to stand on. The handful of kids that you know don't reflect the science that went into developing the new criteria. The OP's child has language processing issues. He should be given an diagnosis from the latest DSM, so that supports will reflect this. I say this as someone who's kid was diagnosed with MERLD and not ASD. You bizarre MERLD posters are off the hook. All you care about is the distinction that it's not autism. It doesn't matter. Period. The end. We're not talking about your kids or mine.

OP is looking for help with MERLD or what ever you want to call it. It is still heavily used in the space community even if it is not an Dsm diagnosis. Can you please contribute something useful. Most MERLD parents talk about things that work for kids. What can you contribute to that? An overpriced online computer program in a so called therapist office is not one of them. That program looks like it is for 3-6 year olds, not older kids.

I am not the PP you have been quarreling with. But I am the PP who described the Fast Forward program my DS did the summers he turned 8 and 9. An even older child in our neighborhood did it (they did not know about our experience). So it i not just for very young children.

I assure you that Metropolitan Speech, where he went, is not a fly by night SLP place. FFW does not work for every child with receptive language problems, but for my DS the progress was amazing. And yes, it was expensive. But the improvements in language scores we saw in six weeks would have taken several years of language therapy to achieve.

Considering insurance doesn't pay for the therapy, it was not more expensive in the end and saved us from having to schlep him to the therapist for years on end. We did do language therapy for four years as well; FFWD made the last year particularly effective.

I continue to be astounded by the vitriol on this post. My DS was dx'ed with MERLD under the old DSM and an auditory processing disorder by the GW audiology department. FFW was very effective for him. So was language therapy. I fail to see what is controversial and unhelpful about sharing with OP what worked in my DS's case.

Anonymous wrote:ADHD, dyslexia and a language disorder is not a rare combination of learning disabilities. Op's kid is in 6th grade so if the kid has ASD, it would have already been found.

Not sure why there is this debate about MERLD which no longer exists in the DSM vs ASD which OP's kid does not have except that there are always some MERLD posters on here who like to characterize MERLD in their younger kids as something they completely outgrow when their language issues are resolved. Language processing issues are rarely fully resolved.

We have hundreds of former members of our MERLD message boards who would disagree with you.

ADHD, dyslexia and a language disorder is not a rare combination of learning disabilities. Op's kid is in 6th grade so if the kid has ASD, it would have already been found.

Not sure why there is this debate about MERLD which no longer exists in the DSM vs ASD which OP's kid does not have except that there are always some MERLD posters on here who like to characterize MERLD in their younger kids as something they completely outgrow when their language issues are resolved. Language processing issues are rarely fully resolved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

MERLD is no longer in the DSM. Children on the spectrum are NOT a "hot mess." It's a spectrum. There are degrees of severity.

For someone going on an outdated DSM has no ground to stand on. The handful of kids that you know don't reflect the science that went into developing the new criteria. The OP's child has language processing issues. He should be given an diagnosis from the latest DSM, so that supports will reflect this. I say this as someone who's kid was diagnosed with MERLD and not ASD. You bizarre MERLD posters are off the hook. All you care about is the distinction that it's not autism. It doesn't matter. Period. The end. We're not talking about your kids or mine.

I think it probably does matter to the OP whether her child has autism or not. And she definitely shouldn't go down the autism rabbit hole if her child has MERLD, which is now the unfortunate, undescriptive Language Impairment. Good speech therapists know that the therapies are not the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

MERLD is no longer in the DSM. Children on the spectrum are NOT a "hot mess." It's a spectrum. There are degrees of severity.

For someone going on an outdated DSM has no ground to stand on. The handful of kids that you know don't reflect the science that went into developing the new criteria. The OP's child has language processing issues. He should be given an diagnosis from the latest DSM, so that supports will reflect this. I say this as someone who's kid was diagnosed with MERLD and not ASD. You bizarre MERLD posters are off the hook. All you care about is the distinction that it's not autism. It doesn't matter. Period. The end. We're not talking about your kids or mine.

OP is looking for help with MERLD or what ever you want to call it. It is still heavily used in the space community even if it is not an Dsm diagnosis. Can you please contribute something useful. Most MERLD parents talk about things that work for kids. What can you contribute to that? An overpriced online computer program in a so called therapist office is not one of them. That program looks like it is for 3-6 year olds, not older kids.

DSM V has this to say"The DSM-5 communication disorders include language disorder (which combines DSM-IV expressive and mixed receptive-expressive language disorders)." So it would appear that the correct diagnosis under DSM V is now just "language disorder."

Wouldn't be surprised if the OP's diagnosis was correct under DSM V, but the SLP used the older term just out of habit or preference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

MERLD is no longer in the DSM. Children on the spectrum are NOT a "hot mess." It's a spectrum. There are degrees of severity.

For someone going on an outdated DSM has no ground to stand on. The handful of kids that you know don't reflect the science that went into developing the new criteria. The OP's child has language processing issues. He should be given an diagnosis from the latest DSM, so that supports will reflect this. I say this as someone who's kid was diagnosed with MERLD and not ASD. You bizarre MERLD posters are off the hook. All you care about is the distinction that it's not autism. It doesn't matter. Period. The end. We're not talking about your kids or mine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

I'd rather let the OP decide for herself if this helpful or not. If you think it is not helpful, then let it die by not responding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

You are not remotely helping the OP -- who has used a professional who HAS met the child and said it's MERLD. Not sure why you have such an ax to grind about this.

Understanding our child had MERLD -- not ASD -- was a huge turning point in helping our child get the right help.

Anonymous wrote:.

If the

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.

ASD is indeed a hot mess, but nonetheless it is possible to get a dual diagnosis even if DSM-IV says otherwise, based on the clinical judgement of a licensed healthcare provider. If the choice is between the opinion of a current professional clinician's diagnosis, and a definition created 20 years ago by people who never met my child, I'd probably go with the one who actually met my child.

Anonymous wrote:DS, in 6th grade, was just diagnosed with this. He's long had ADHD and dyslexia and has struggled a ton in school. He has had speech evaluations in the past but no one ever flagged this specifically. Any insights/recommendations/encouragement. We're trying to wrap our heads around this, including whether it goes together with an autism spectrum DX (he has not been DX'd ever as being on the spectrum and has had a recent neuropsych evaluation). Many thanks!

OP, the crucial part of MERLD is the receptive component. It would be good to get an accurate read of where his receptive language is at. That is often the crux of the issue as a child attempts reading and functioning in school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*just as you can have MERLD with or without ASD*

Since the neuropsych did not find ASD, stop worrying OP.

You can't have MERLD with ASD. Part of the definition of MERLD is that you don't have ASD.

There are many conditions that can cause expressive and receptive language delays, such as ASD, and ID, and Hearing Loss. However, there are also kids who have expressive and receptive delays without a larger syndrome that explains them. Those are the children that qualify (or qualified as this is an older way of categorizing) for MERLD.

Stating that ASD was incompatible with other diagnoses was a very controversial part of DSM-IV's approach and one that was routinely ignored by clinicians, who could plainly see that their patients suffered from multiple disabilities. That's why DSM-V now allows ASD kids to have other related diagnoses. But even under DSM-IV nobody blinked an eye if you got multiple diagnoses, except maybe the DSM-IV committee and their groupies.

MERLD is something very specific, actually. In the MERLD groups I belong to, the children are resoundingly similar to each other. The ASD category, though, is a hot mess.

None of us "groupies" are saying that other children don't have language issues - just that they did not fit the clinical definition of MERLD.