Anonymous
05/04/2016 22:10
Subject: Re:Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.
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I think a salary of 500K would be highly unusual in Rochester. What does your BIL do? We lived in Rochester for 3 years quite a few years ago. My husband was on a contract with Xerox. It was not renewed so we came here (where it was much easier for both of us to get better jobs). We still have friends in Rochester and they recently told us that we were lucky that we left. Kodak is pretty much dead and Xerox has laid off many employees. Yes, some of them were able to get jobs in that research university you mentioned, but the pay is not as high. Downtown Rochester is nothing to write home about. However, I will give you the fact that the schools are incredible, the houses in certain suburbs (like Brighton) and the city are old and have character, and the parks are nice. And it is close to the Finger Lakes and other recreational areas. But I am not 100% sold that the economy there is doing super well. Again, where does your BIL work and what is his take on the overall economy of the Rochester area?
As for diversity, no it is not nearly as diverse as here. Our experience with restaurants was less than. Maybe it has improved since we left. We did like all the Wegman's stores (which we now have here) and the proximity to Toronto. We did like living there for the most part. The job situation made us leave.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 15:20
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:It's immediately apparent who has never lived in a non-coastal city (not counting your insulated 4 years at Williiams, Carleton or Oberlin)
Why, there are no JOBS in Dallas / Minneapolis / Phoenix! None at all, I tell you!
Since people in my hometown aren't into fashion, that means nobody outside of DC/NYC/LA knows how to dress!
Everyone not in a coastal metropolis must be -exactly- like that court clerk in Kentucky who hates gay people. Yep. I know that is true.
+1000. I totally agree. My siblings and I have lived in all 3 cities mentioned above, but we live in the DC area now. My friends who still live in those places have the same type of jobs (Law), but live in nicer houses and seem to take more and nicer vacations than we do.
There are a lot of good cities that are not necessarily DC/NY/SF, etc, but that are good places to live.
I noticed that, on HGTV recently, they are talking up Raleigh and it does sound pretty appealing.
I wish DH and I could pull the trigger and move to those lower COL cities. The author in the article went to a struggling city, but you can go to a thriving city in the US that is not DC/NY/SF, etc.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 12:59
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/
I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:
1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.
2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.
3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.
So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.
Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.
How's the ethnic food? How much diversity is there?
I'm not sure since I don't actually live there, lol. We visit probably 3 times a year. Usually during Christmas, once during the summer, and often another fall (their winters kind of suck but I will say that they seem to have nice falls where the weather stays nice for longer than you'd think considering how far north it is). They do have some nice local restaurants that are cheaper than DC. I have heard from my in laws that they have a large African American population dating from around the time of the Civil War (Rochester was actually part of the Underground Railway and has a respected abolitionist past) and a growing population from South Asia.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:48
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
+1 I can't get over how low the property taxes are in the DC area.
They're not. They are compared to NY.
They are also amazingly low compared to CA.
Property taxes in CA seem low to me!
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:32
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/
I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:
1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.
2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.
3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.
So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.
Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.
Rochester!!!
Rochester is cool (though in Western NY, not upstate), and I'd consider moving there if I could get a good job. My husband can work from wherever, and his family is nearby (he grew up near Niagara Falls). I love winter and there's much to like about that area, in general.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:29
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
+1 I can't get over how low the property taxes are in the DC area.
They're not. They are compared to NY.
They are also amazingly low compared to CA.
Also low compared to NJ -- and I'm not talking the part of NJ commutable to NYC; I'm talking about southern NJ near Phil. and Del. where there is minimal economic opportunity.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:15
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/
I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:
1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.
2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.
3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.
So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.
Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.
How's the ethnic food? How much diversity is there?
Ha! You sound like a Seinfeld character! Great schools, high income, beautiful homes, amazing nature....but what I really care about is the proximity to ethnic food....
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:07
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm guessing Ithaca is cheap but Berkeley and Cville are as expensive as DC.
Ithaca is cheap bc there is a serious job problem in upstate NY. It's fine if your work for Cornell or Ithaca College or are in healthcare and can get a job at one of the regional health systems or doctors offices. Aside from that -- it's tough going in finance, law etc. as those were all support industries in the big manufacturing corporations, many of which have now moved down south or out of the country.
I feel like Penn State people are always clamoring to go back to State College. Again not sure what there is to do there jobwise, unless you work for Penn State.
Because it's a pretty awesome QoL all things considered, if you can nab a job at one of those places. There are UMC and wealthy people all over the country, you know, not just in the biggest cities. Think about living in Ithaca and making $250k plus. Pretty nice if you can swing it.
Except give me a humid DC summer anytime instead of a horrible Ithaca winter.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:07
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/
I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:
1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.
2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.
3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.
So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.
Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.
How's the ethnic food? How much diversity is there?
Anonymous
05/04/2016 11:00
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It helps to be an academic. Then you can live in lovely little college towns that are shielded from the economic chaos that rules the rest of the world. It's a great place to raise kids because everyone is so relaxed and there is no rat race.
* And we know exactly how to dress: khakis, crew neck sweaters, comfy shoes. Tweedy blazers with antelope elbow patches! Never goes out of style!
Very few college towns are actual nice places to live. See: Olean, NY; DeKalb, IL; etc.
Ann Arbor? Charlottesville?
I'd love to live in my lovely little college town, San Luis Obispo CA, but it's really expensive!
Anonymous
05/04/2016 10:58
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It helps to be an academic. Then you can live in lovely little college towns that are shielded from the economic chaos that rules the rest of the world. It's a great place to raise kids because everyone is so relaxed and there is no rat race.
* And we know exactly how to dress: khakis, crew neck sweaters, comfy shoes. Tweedy blazers with antelope elbow patches! Never goes out of style!
Very few college towns are actual nice places to live. See: Olean, NY; DeKalb, IL; etc.
Ann Arbor? Charlottesville?
Anonymous
05/04/2016 10:40
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
I stay because I like it here.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 09:17
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
+1 I can't get over how low the property taxes are in the DC area.
They're not. They are compared to NY.
They are also amazingly low compared to CA.
Anonymous
05/04/2016 00:54
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Anonymous wrote:
+1 I can't get over how low the property taxes are in the DC area.
They're not. They are compared to NY.
Anonymous
05/03/2016 21:45
Subject: Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life
Now rochester sounds ammazing to me. My cousins live in syracuse and are an academic and lawyer. Maybe i'll start looking there! Thanks pp!