OP

The school is in a W cluster. I don't get the impression from my kids that it is one group of kids that are the "troublemakers". I said something to a neighbor and he joked that it's because all the kids have parents that are lawyers so the parents/admin are scared of getting sued.

Obviously my kids don't talk about it every night, I was being hyperbolic, but it is the subtext of a lot of stories -- we didn't get to this because kids were.....the teacher couldn't....

From the posts on the board it seems like this is just the culture here - a tweens will be tweens sort of thing. I find that hard to believe though, we are talking about an area a few hours away with similar demographics. I doubt the parenting styles could be that different, but I've been wrong before.

In the previous school teachers were freer with detentions (this is the 3rd time I asked you, see you after school) and deducting points (didn't choose to do that homework, let's not waste the class' time - here is your zero). You can have discipline without being iron-fisted, in an ideal world kids will be engaged and want to pay attention and learn, but even without that, the fair and kind teachers often have the better behaved classrooms because kids want to please them. I have asked my kids about the teachers and they said that the teachers are respectful to the kids.

But, my actual question is - can I do anything? Talk to anyone? Is this an issue being addressed in any of the schools? I looked at the code of conduct and this type student behavior appears to be against it, and it seems as if it is in the teachers' power to appropriately correct it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids would never get away with that behavior at our private. The problem is that public schools are afraid to discipline kids because of backlash from parents who also are disrespectful. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

From what I have "heard", private school parents can get away with lots of stuff:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552518.page

Though I agree, apple doesn't fall from the tree, including wealthy parents and their offsprings.

I am not talking about wealthy vs. non-wealthy. I am talking about my particular small Catholic school where kids are very respectful of their elders. No eye rolling happening there.

It's not respect; it's fear.

We pulled our daughter from a Catholic school. Kids were kept in at recess for not heading their papers correctly. It was beyond ridiculous. That "punishment" didn't teach students to respect their teachers. To this day, my daughter has horrible memories of her 3rd grade teacher. And she never got into trouble.

In her school now, there are punishments for misbehavior - and more tolerance for certain behaviors. But classes are under control and when a child misbehaves, s/he is sent out and parents are called. In some cases, restorative practices are used.

With the Catholics, it's all about fear and guilt.

Believe me I would rather have on my hand fear and guilt then total mess, when child screams to parents and teachers: "I do not care", "You can't do anything to me.."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, the problem is how parents define "discipline". All I know is SE Asian and African parents are much more firm in their discipline than American parents. These parents aren't worried about their kids liking them, or being their kids' friends. They also haven't been conditioned to be afraid of a neighbor calling cps on them for giving a swat to the bottom, so they aren't afraid to discipline their kids. They aren't afraid of hurting their kids' delicate egos.

Not saying their discipline techniques are great, but there is really something about the American parenting style that is making our kids behave this way, because as the teacher PP noted, you don't see this kind of behavior in immigrant children.

"The American parenting style"? I know a lot of parents who are not immigrants whose children don't behave like spoiled, entitled brats.

However, if "discipline" includes hitting children, with or without CPS involvement, then I want no part of it.

I have no idea if those parents hit their kids. But, per the teacher PP, those kids are more well behaved than those American kids. Let's face it. American kids know there are no real severe consequences for being disrespectful in school, and parents don't think it's a huge deal either. That's why there are so many kids like this. Some parents flip out if their kids don't get enough play time in team sports, but I bet some of those parents wouldn't punish their kids for being disrespectful to their teachers. Our kids' values are so screwed up because parents are teaching them this.

Anonymous wrote:It's because there's basically no discipline system anymore. The code of conduct is laughable. So they know that there won't be consequences for their actions so they push the boundaries. If a teacher dares to discipline the parent complains to admin and threatens lawsuits. So now this is the status of our schools.

This. I hear it from ES and HS teachers as well. ES focus on positive behavior reinforcement and kids learn pretty early on that there are no consequences to their actions and that teachers are really not going to follow through with any form of punishment.

Former teacher here. Until 10 years ago I worked at a high immigrant, low SES school in this area. We had our share of normal early teen behavior and of issues common in high FARMS schools (homework not complete, etc), but it hardly ever included disrespect.

Is it possible to buck this trend with our own kids? If this is all around them every day, are they doomed to take on the attitudes and behaviors OP is describing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids would never get away with that behavior at our private. The problem is that public schools are afraid to discipline kids because of backlash from parents who also are disrespectful. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

From what I have "heard", private school parents can get away with lots of stuff:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552518.page

Though I agree, apple doesn't fall from the tree, including wealthy parents and their offsprings.

I am not talking about wealthy vs. non-wealthy. I am talking about my particular small Catholic school where kids are very respectful of their elders. No eye rolling happening there.

It's not respect; it's fear.

We pulled our daughter from a Catholic school. Kids were kept in at recess for not heading their papers correctly. It was beyond ridiculous. That "punishment" didn't teach students to respect their teachers. To this day, my daughter has horrible memories of her 3rd grade teacher. And she never got into trouble.

In her school now, there are punishments for misbehavior - and more tolerance for certain behaviors. But classes are under control and when a child misbehaves, s/he is sent out and parents are called. In some cases, restorative practices are used.

With the Catholics, it's all about fear and guilt.

Well, our little Catholic school is the most nurturing environment, and the kids are lovely. There are NO punishments. Sorry to hear you are at a school that has "punishments. You sound tightly wound PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

It has definitely gotten worse over the last 10 or so years. -teacher

It has. The Code of (mis)Conduct has destroyed schools.

But it has cut down disparities in suspension rates which is all that matters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

It has definitely gotten worse over the last 10 or so years. -teacher

It has. The Code of (mis)Conduct has destroyed schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids would never get away with that behavior at our private. The problem is that public schools are afraid to discipline kids because of backlash from parents who also are disrespectful. The apple does not fall far from the tree.

From what I have "heard", private school parents can get away with lots of stuff:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/552518.page

Though I agree, apple doesn't fall from the tree, including wealthy parents and their offsprings.

I am not talking about wealthy vs. non-wealthy. I am talking about my particular small Catholic school where kids are very respectful of their elders. No eye rolling happening there.

It's not respect; it's fear.

We pulled our daughter from a Catholic school. Kids were kept in at recess for not heading their papers correctly. It was beyond ridiculous. That "punishment" didn't teach students to respect their teachers. To this day, my daughter has horrible memories of her 3rd grade teacher. And she never got into trouble.

In her school now, there are punishments for misbehavior - and more tolerance for certain behaviors. But classes are under control and when a child misbehaves, s/he is sent out and parents are called. In some cases, restorative practices are used.

With the Catholics, it's all about fear and guilt.

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, the problem is how parents define "discipline". All I know is SE Asian and African parents are much more firm in their discipline than American parents. These parents aren't worried about their kids liking them, or being their kids' friends. They also haven't been conditioned to be afraid of a neighbor calling cps on them for giving a swat to the bottom, so they aren't afraid to discipline their kids. They aren't afraid of hurting their kids' delicate egos.

Not saying their discipline techniques are great, but there is really something about the American parenting style that is making our kids behave this way, because as the teacher PP noted, you don't see this kind of behavior in immigrant children.

"The American parenting style"? I know a lot of parents who are not immigrants whose children don't behave like spoiled, entitled brats.

However, if "discipline" includes hitting children, with or without CPS involvement, then I want no part of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

It has definitely gotten worse over the last 10 or so years. -teacher

That's what they said 10 years ago. And 100 years ago. And 1,000 years ago...

NP. You have a teacher here who is stating that it has gotten worse in the past 10 yrs. Yes, people have been saying such things for generations. But, you don't think this teacher has a point at all? 60 yrs ago, if a kid back talked to a teacher, more than likely that kid would've been given a swat. Today, kids think they can misbehave in school because there is absolutely nothing a teacher can do about it. If they try to talk to the parents, more often than not, the parent will make excuses or say to the teacher, "well, that's your problem. We don't have a problem at home", rather than trying to work with the teacher.

I wouldn't want to be a teacher now a days. Too many entitled kids and parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

Yes, the problem is how parents define "discipline". All I know is SE Asian and African parents are much more firm in their discipline than American parents. These parents aren't worried about their kids liking them, or being their kids' friends. They also haven't been conditioned to be afraid of a neighbor calling cps on them for giving a swat to the bottom, so they aren't afraid to discipline their kids. They aren't afraid of hurting their kids' delicate egos.

Not saying their discipline techniques are great, but there is really something about the American parenting style that is making our kids behave this way, because as the teacher PP noted, you don't see this kind of behavior in immigrant children.

Anonymous wrote:We are new to the Bethesda area. We've been here about 3 months and come from a school system that is similarly ranked with a similar socio-economic and racial make-up. My kids can't stop talking about how rude students are to the teachers (tone of voice, eye-rolling, disregarding what they say). This is not our first go-round with middle-school - so it isn't as if I am totally naive about this age group. Our dinners are full or recaps what kids did/said that day -- and about the amount of cursing.

What's up? More importantly, is this being addressed? What can I do about it? It most definitely gets in the way of learning and I can't help but think it also influences the way students treat each other?

A friend of mine moved from an up county school where he was spat on and cussed out on an almost daily basis to a Bethesda middle school. He said that the kids there have been super polite and respectful. It's possible it's just the contrast though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

It has definitely gotten worse over the last 10 or so years. -teacher

That's what they said 10 years ago. And 100 years ago. And 1,000 years ago...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm an Asian immigrant. This is because immigrant parents aren't scared to discipline their kids. Most of these cultures are respectful of their elders (though, sadly, that seems to be changing, too). They have not been indoctrinated by the latest American parenting techniques. Give it a generation. I'm not saying all American parenting techniques are bad, but there's something about it that is producing spoiled, entitled brats who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults.

Which American parenting technique endorses not disciplining your children? I guess it depends on how you define "discipline".

I'm also pretty sure that people have been complaining for at least the last 2,000 years about the spoiled, entitled brats these days who feel it's ok to be disrespectful to adults .

It has definitely gotten worse over the last 10 or so years. -teacher