Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:49     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?


Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.


I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.


And every article about the current generation of college students says they don't know how to handle uncomfortable situations or solve their own problems because they are used to their parents getting them out of every situation. Best advice someone once gave to me: Don't do something for your kid that they can do themselves. Their self-esteem and confidence in their own abilities is absolutely something that needs to be nurtured and grown. When they solve a problem like this themselves, they feel a lot of ownership in the solution and pride in their ability to handle conflict.

That being said, if your kid has tried to work something out and can't, or is overly upset about social dynamics or starting to refuse going to school (or other behaviors that show they are not handling things well), by all means get involved. But do it in a way that gives your kid power and doesn't give the mean kid more power.

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:42     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


OP, I was one of the PPs earlier who said in a nicer way than some others that you should let your child advocate for herself but school refusal very unusual and this does rise to the level of contacting the school. I fully support your talking to the guidance counselor but I think you're focusing on the wrong issue. Yes, the other child's actions are not appropriate and the counselor should talk to her, but there is also something going on with your daughter. Most kids even in this situation would still be fine going to school. Have you had her evaluated for anxiety issues? Does she have a therapist she can talk to about why this is making her so upset? I am again very supportive of you and hoping the best for your daughter but, speaking of normal, you need to recognize that this is not within the realm of normal.


Actually, having been in the same situation the OP is describing with my own DD, You need to learn to advocate for your own kid and recognize when your own child is not at fault or you will spend their childhood blaming them for things beyond their control.

The "mean girls" are the ones with the issues and the ones who need to be talking to counselors and should be in social skills classes.

It is the "mean girls" have real anxiety issues. The kind that really needs intervention by a professional.

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:38     Subject: Re:2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.


Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.


And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].


By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.


Why does the teacher need to be involved? The child should be addressing with the "problem" child. And if there are a few of them that confront her (gently) they will have a lot of power to change the behavior, ideally in a positive way. If they've talked to her several times and the behavior persists or escalates then maybe go to the teacher/GC but it sounds like that hasn't happened yet.

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:31     Subject: Re:2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.


Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.


And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].


By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:22     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?


Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.


I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.


These are the same people who are not affected by their own babies wailing at night when they do CIO.


LOL. I'm the biggest co-sleeper out there but I also very much let my kids be as independent as they can, especially at the playground. I spot my kids at the playground if they are climbing high, but otherwise I let them work it out themselves. They are learning how to move their bodies and judge distances/heights. They are learning how to fall - and get back up. You have to know your kids too. My DD2 is very athletic and capable but when she gets tired/hungry she whines that she can't do really basic things. So I tell her "you can do it!" and sure enough she can. I would be doing her an injustice if I caved every time she asked for help.

So maybe the playground mom has seen her kid do it before. Maybe she is encouraging her to stretch herself to test her limits. Who knows. She wasn't ignoring her child, she was letting her navigate the playground herself.

Your job isn't to help your kids, it's to encourage them to learn how to help themselves.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:12     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


OP, I was one of the PPs earlier who said in a nicer way than some others that you should let your child advocate for herself but school refusal very unusual and this does rise to the level of contacting the school. I fully support your talking to the guidance counselor but I think you're focusing on the wrong issue. Yes, the other child's actions are not appropriate and the counselor should talk to her, but there is also something going on with your daughter. Most kids even in this situation would still be fine going to school. Have you had her evaluated for anxiety issues? Does she have a therapist she can talk to about why this is making her so upset? I am again very supportive of you and hoping the best for your daughter but, speaking of normal, you need to recognize that this is not within the realm of normal.


I think this is totally within the "realm of normal" for a kid -- who wants to go to school when you know there's going to be a mean girl waiting for you? If I had a mean coworkers, I'd totally dread going to work! OP, don't listen to this person. Anxiety is totally normal when there's an anxiety-causing situation.


+1000

All in the realm of normal. Best to help your DD develop skills to deal with it in a healthy, productive way.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:12     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


OP, I was one of the PPs earlier who said in a nicer way than some others that you should let your child advocate for herself but school refusal very unusual and this does rise to the level of contacting the school. I fully support your talking to the guidance counselor but I think you're focusing on the wrong issue. Yes, the other child's actions are not appropriate and the counselor should talk to her, but there is also something going on with your daughter. Most kids even in this situation would still be fine going to school. Have you had her evaluated for anxiety issues? Does she have a therapist she can talk to about why this is making her so upset? I am again very supportive of you and hoping the best for your daughter but, speaking of normal, you need to recognize that this is not within the realm of normal.


NP: I completely disagree with the PP. Being bossed around and isolated by a bully is completely a reason not to want to go to school. Can you imagine working in that type of environment every day?
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:09     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


OP, I was one of the PPs earlier who said in a nicer way than some others that you should let your child advocate for herself but school refusal very unusual and this does rise to the level of contacting the school. I fully support your talking to the guidance counselor but I think you're focusing on the wrong issue. Yes, the other child's actions are not appropriate and the counselor should talk to her, but there is also something going on with your daughter. Most kids even in this situation would still be fine going to school. Have you had her evaluated for anxiety issues? Does she have a therapist she can talk to about why this is making her so upset? I am again very supportive of you and hoping the best for your daughter but, speaking of normal, you need to recognize that this is not within the realm of normal.


I think this is totally within the "realm of normal" for a kid -- who wants to go to school when you know there's going to be a mean girl waiting for you? If I had a mean coworkers, I'd totally dread going to work! OP, don't listen to this person. Anxiety is totally normal when there's an anxiety-causing situation.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:07     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


So sorry to hear your daughter is dealing with this. Glad you contacted the school and it sounds like the counselor is taking it seriously and will deal with it. Hope it's all resolved quickly. You definitely took the right course of action!

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:03     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?


Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.


I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.


These are the same people who are not affected by their own babies wailing at night when they do CIO.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:02     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?


Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.


I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:00     Subject: Re:2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I always assume it's the parents of the mean kids who say kids should work it out themselves.


IME it's usually high achieving working parents who are independent and confident and want to raise a child to grow up to be the same. Their kids are usually the cool kids
It's the SAHMs with socially awkward kids who get caught up in all this drama themselves and make a big deal about something like this.


You are truly pathetic.


That was a polite way to say it!
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:54     Subject: Re:2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.


Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.


What the...???


No. You are wrong. Pp made some very good points.


Huh? I don't see that at all. The parents I know with that attitude are trying to promote independence for their children. Not that they are afraid of confrontation themselves. On the contrary! The meeker parents are the ones who try to smooth everything over themselves.


I always assume it's the parents of the mean kids who say kids should work it out themselves.


And when a teacher says that the child needs to self-advocate rather than having the parent intervene?



the teacher didn't say that. This is what she said: I would normally say kid should work it out on their own but I think of a 2nd grader can't deal with these types of issues without bringing in a parent she must be lacking in social skills and struggling herself. In this case I would think it's okay for a parent to intervene.

I'm a teacher and the issues OP describes are very common and it's rare for a parent to bring this type of thing up to the school.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:52     Subject: Re:2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I always assume it's the parents of the mean kids who say kids should work it out themselves.


IME it's usually high achieving working parents who are independent and confident and want to raise a child to grow up to be the same. Their kids are usually the cool kids
It's the SAHMs with socially awkward kids who get caught up in all this drama themselves and make a big deal about something like this.


You are truly pathetic.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:45     Subject: 2nd grade girl drama - start with teacher or counselor?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. My DD didn't want to go to school today for the first time in her life. After she left, I contacted both the teacher and the guidance counselor. The teacher will obviously need to call me back not during school but I was able to speak to the guidance counselor directly. She was very alarmed and felt that this behavior DID rise to the level of needing intervention from her (the counselor.) She did not feel that I was overreacting at all.

I am aware of at least one other mother who has contacted the school about this girl as well. She clearly has some issues that need dealing with.


OP, I was one of the PPs earlier who said in a nicer way than some others that you should let your child advocate for herself but school refusal very unusual and this does rise to the level of contacting the school. I fully support your talking to the guidance counselor but I think you're focusing on the wrong issue. Yes, the other child's actions are not appropriate and the counselor should talk to her, but there is also something going on with your daughter. Most kids even in this situation would still be fine going to school. Have you had her evaluated for anxiety issues? Does she have a therapist she can talk to about why this is making her so upset? I am again very supportive of you and hoping the best for your daughter but, speaking of normal, you need to recognize that this is not within the realm of normal.