Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 14:36     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It'd be a lot more interesting to have this conversation with anyone who has skin in the game (other than people just looking to kick out EOTP from Deal).

The new principal at Roosevelt seems great. Perhaps she and the upcoming principal at MacFarland can make something great of the schools.

But that all goes over your heads because *gasp* there will be many poors there. For those of us who can get past that, maybe there will be something to the school. And maybe not, but I'm willing to hang around and see instead of poo pooing it because of the "awfulness" of the feeders.


just facts. Any school with more than 30% FARMS rate is going to struggle. then it becomes self fullfilling and the few high SES families will finally give up due to remedial class work and behaviral problems and the school is pretty much nothing but FARMS.


I don't think you understand what "facts" are. I'm familiar with the studies you quote, but your application of their statistics is beyond atrocious.

In fact, the very schools that will feed to MacFarland have been showing the opposite trends. FARMS rates much higher than 30%, but scores improving, and attracting a growing enrollment, including middle class families.


agreed but that high SES PS enrollment is still not evident past 1st grade at these schools. It will take 10-15 years to have a solid high SES cohort of kids from these feeders who would attend McFarland. Minimum 10-15 years. Look at Cap hill and their middle school delimma. They have multiple options and the parents with options get the eff out by 4th grade to find a charter.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 11:15     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:

I agree that anyone should be able to test in as bilingual, assuming there are spots available after the programmatic feeder students have been accepted. It's win-win-win to have kids coming from Spanish immersion charters to MacFarland, or just kids who speak it at home and are fluent.

In my mind the lottery preferences for MacFarland dual language at grades 6, 7 and 8 would be:

1) Students from dual language feeders (guaranteed spots)
2) Students IB for MacFarland who can prove proficiency in a test (guaranteed spots)
3) Students OOB who can prove proficiency in a test (if there is space)

You'd have to work in the usual sibling preferences too.

Students IB and OOB who cannot prove proficiency would not be admitted to the dual language program, but IB would be guaranteed spots at the English program and OOB could apply for available spots in the English program.

I haven't thought it through a great deal but this makes sense to me at first blush.


I think this is the current plan/situation.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:43     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
It sounds like there's also going to be more crossover rather than having two completely separate tracks. That could mean improved language offerings for the English track.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:36     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.


I think this is still an open question - last I heard that it would only be for kids who came out of the DCPS feeders or at that they would have priority for seats - does anyone know?


I'm on the community cabinet and I haven't heard an update to that. DCPS seemed open to the idea, but wouldn't commit yet. I think they're trying to figure out how the program takes off before making commitments.

It has come up at the community cabinet meetings, but it can't hurt to tell that to DCPS whenever they ask for community input.


I agree that anyone should be able to test in as bilingual, assuming there are spots available after the programmatic feeder students have been accepted. It's win-win-win to have kids coming from Spanish immersion charters to MacFarland, or just kids who speak it at home and are fluent.

In my mind the lottery preferences for MacFarland dual language at grades 6, 7 and 8 would be:

1) Students from dual language feeders (guaranteed spots)
2) Students IB for MacFarland who can prove proficiency in a test (guaranteed spots)
3) Students OOB who can prove proficiency in a test (if there is space)

You'd have to work in the usual sibling preferences too.

Students IB and OOB who cannot prove proficiency would not be admitted to the dual language program, but IB would be guaranteed spots at the English program and OOB could apply for available spots in the English program.

I haven't thought it through a great deal but this makes sense to me at first blush.

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:35     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.


I think this is still an open question - last I heard that it would only be for kids who came out of the DCPS feeders or at that they would have priority for seats - does anyone know?


I'm on the community cabinet and I haven't heard an update to that. DCPS seemed open to the idea, but wouldn't commit yet. I think they're trying to figure out how the program takes off before making commitments.

It has come up at the community cabinet meetings, but it can't hurt to tell that to DCPS whenever they ask for community input.


I am the PP about this. Thanks for the update. I have it on my to-do list to express my thoughts on that, which I guess is a good first step!
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:30     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.


I'm pretty sure this is the plan for the coming years. The testing process already exists.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:22     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.


I think this is still an open question - last I heard that it would only be for kids who came out of the DCPS feeders or at that they would have priority for seats - does anyone know?


I'm on the community cabinet and I haven't heard an update to that. DCPS seemed open to the idea, but wouldn't commit yet. I think they're trying to figure out how the program takes off before making commitments.

It has come up at the community cabinet meetings, but it can't hurt to tell that to DCPS whenever they ask for community input.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:15     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.


I think this is still an open question - last I heard that it would only be for kids who came out of the DCPS feeders or at that they would have priority for seats - does anyone know?
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:15     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How long have these areas had access to Deal? How did it come about? and which areas? SP? Mt P?


Since 1967 as a result the Hobson v. Hansen ruling.


In case anyone is interested in reading the court's decision. The numbered summary at the beginning is only a page or two and provides a good overview.

A lot has changed in the District since 1967. The "white" schools are no longer underpopulated and the "[African American]" schools are no longer overcrowded, and thanks to Title I the per-pupil spending is no longer higher at the "white" schools. But the basic idea is that de facto racial segregation in schools is harmful and should be remedied:

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1800940/hobson-v-hansen/

Some text from the summary:

"In support of this conclusion the court makes the following principal findings of fact:

1. Racially and socially homogeneous schools damage the minds and spirit of all children who attend them, ?the Negro, the white, the poor and the affluent? and block the attainment of the broader goals of democratic education, whether the segregation occurs by law or by fact.

2. The scholastic achievement of the disadvantaged child, Negro and white, is strongly related to the racial and socio-economic composition of the student body of his school. A racially and socially integrated school environment increases the scholastic achievement of the disadvantaged child of whatever race.

(...)

4. Adherence to the neighborhood school policy by the School Board effectively segregates the Negro and the poor children from the white and the more affluent children in most of the District's public schools...."

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 10:13     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:agree that the build and they will come mentality of DCPS is a mess. Too many new schools, half capacity and still shitty scores and same bahviaorl issues. Hello Dunbar! Brookland Middle could still attract some Petworth and Park View families but just not enough. McFarland might have a chance if they carve out the dual language portion an turn it into an academy that requires some background in the language or a test in/magnent school within a school. We do not need another new middle in Ward 4.


I agree with this. My kids go to LAMB, but McFarland is our neighborhood middle school. Our intended path is to DCI, but who knows. I have posted this before, but I would be willing to consider the McFarland language program, if my children could test in. Since this is my by-right middle school, I believe my children should have the ability to participate in any aspect of the program, IF they are qualified and can pass a test to participate. I want them to continue the Spanish language emphasis, so wouldn't want to attend the non-language program at McFarland. But I would consider the language program. This seems to be a way to build some more buy-in to the program.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 09:58     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How long have these areas had access to Deal? How did it come about? and which areas? SP? Mt P?


Since 1967 as a result the Hobson v. Hansen ruling.


Deal was also way under-enrolled until just seven or eight years ago, so there was no practical cost to the crazy feeder pattern until recently.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 09:53     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It'd be a lot more interesting to have this conversation with anyone who has skin in the game (other than people just looking to kick out EOTP from Deal).

The new principal at Roosevelt seems great. Perhaps she and the upcoming principal at MacFarland can make something great of the schools.

But that all goes over your heads because *gasp* there will be many poors there. For those of us who can get past that, maybe there will be something to the school. And maybe not, but I'm willing to hang around and see instead of poo pooing it because of the "awfulness" of the feeders.


just facts. Any school with more than 30% FARMS rate is going to struggle. then it becomes self fullfilling and the few high SES families will finally give up due to remedial class work and behaviral problems and the school is pretty much nothing but FARMS.


Shepherd was 34% FARMS in 2015 and there are other examples. Schools with a strong culture can mitigate the risk that you outline, but it can't work if parents run in fear before even giving a school a look.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 09:47     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It'd be a lot more interesting to have this conversation with anyone who has skin in the game (other than people just looking to kick out EOTP from Deal).

The new principal at Roosevelt seems great. Perhaps she and the upcoming principal at MacFarland can make something great of the schools.

But that all goes over your heads because *gasp* there will be many poors there. For those of us who can get past that, maybe there will be something to the school. And maybe not, but I'm willing to hang around and see instead of poo pooing it because of the "awfulness" of the feeders.


just facts. Any school with more than 30% FARMS rate is going to struggle. then it becomes self fullfilling and the few high SES families will finally give up due to remedial class work and behaviral problems and the school is pretty much nothing but FARMS.


I don't think you understand what "facts" are. I'm familiar with the studies you quote, but your application of their statistics is beyond atrocious.

In fact, the very schools that will feed to MacFarland have been showing the opposite trends. FARMS rates much higher than 30%, but scores improving, and attracting a growing enrollment, including middle class families.
Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 09:41     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There seems to be confusion about what schools will feed MacFarland. Bancroft is already in the mix, as are many other students in immersion programs.

I don't think there's room or a rationale to put Shepherd in the mix. The building will hold 600.

Geographic feeders / PARCC % proficient and advanced

West - ELA 28 Math 21
Bruce Monroe - ELA 15 Math 18
Truesdell - ELA 14 Math 20
Barnard - ELA 26 Math 25
Powell - ELA 15 Math 35
Raymond - ELA 16 Math 13

Programmatic feeder rights :

Cleveland - ELA 31 Math 26
Marie Reed - ELA 18 Math 33
Tyler - ELA 19 Math 27
Bancroft - ELA 12 Math 20


Yes this is correct, although you could put Powell and Bruce Monroe in both lists.

I think it is silly that someone is already trying to announce the new MacFarland as a failure (albeit on DCUM only, and it sounds like one person). Aside from DCPS there are a lot of people invested in MacFarland's re-opening, some very good and committed parents and education activists, including but not limited to the Ward 4 Education Alliance. Plus there is the issue of demographics as another PP mentioned, the reversal of the trend of school-aged population IB for MacFarland. Give it a few years and let's see how it goes. I am optimistic.

I do have one concern that was raised a couple of years ago on DCUM when the MacFarland plan was announced. This was that the dual language program at MacFarland might attract more committed parents, more interest, more applications, and so on, compared to the regular program at MacFarland. First because dual language is in demand these days and second because some of the dual language feeder schools may be stronger than the geographic feeders. I am not sure about the latter given the test scores posted above, but I agree with the former about dual language being very popular. The concern is that this could lead to a well-regarded and in-demand dual language stream at MacFarland and a less-well-regarded regular stream.

But at least until we see what actually happens, I don't see the potential strength of the dual language program as a negative. I see it as a positive that MacFarland has something tangible and unique that will make it a big draw. MacFarland is I believe the only DCPS dual language MS? That's a big plus that will attract families from the dual language feeders, and that interest and vitality will benefit the whole school. It will be important not to privilege the dual language program over the English-only program but I expect that the school admin and the PTA can maintain the balance. Plus there is, again, the demographic angle which works in favor of the geographic feeders, with an increasing school-age population IB for MacFarland.



I realized as soon as I hit "submit" that Oyster-Adams has a MS so MacFarland is not the only dual language MS. But Oyster is small and its geographical boundary exclusive, so the dual language program at MacFarland while not unique will still be a big draw, IMO.

Anonymous
Post 04/27/2016 09:37     Subject: MacFarland Middle & Roosevelt High - Status?
Anonymous wrote:There seems to be confusion about what schools will feed MacFarland. Bancroft is already in the mix, as are many other students in immersion programs.

I don't think there's room or a rationale to put Shepherd in the mix. The building will hold 600.

Geographic feeders / PARCC % proficient and advanced

West - ELA 28 Math 21
Bruce Monroe - ELA 15 Math 18
Truesdell - ELA 14 Math 20
Barnard - ELA 26 Math 25
Powell - ELA 15 Math 35
Raymond - ELA 16 Math 13

Programmatic feeder rights :

Cleveland - ELA 31 Math 26
Marie Reed - ELA 18 Math 33
Tyler - ELA 19 Math 27
Bancroft - ELA 12 Math 20


Yes this is correct, although you could put Powell and Bruce Monroe in both lists.

I think it is silly that someone is already trying to announce the new MacFarland as a failure (albeit on DCUM only, and it sounds like one person). Aside from DCPS there are a lot of people invested in MacFarland's re-opening, some very good and committed parents and education activists, including but not limited to the Ward 4 Education Alliance. Plus there is the issue of demographics as another PP mentioned, the reversal of the trend of school-aged population IB for MacFarland. Give it a few years and let's see how it goes. I am optimistic.

I do have one concern that was raised a couple of years ago on DCUM when the MacFarland plan was announced. This was that the dual language program at MacFarland might attract more committed parents, more interest, more applications, and so on, compared to the regular program at MacFarland. First because dual language is in demand these days and second because some of the dual language feeder schools may be stronger than the geographic feeders. I am not sure about the latter given the test scores posted above, but I agree with the former about dual language being very popular. The concern is that this could lead to a well-regarded and in-demand dual language stream at MacFarland and a less-well-regarded regular stream.

But at least until we see what actually happens, I don't see the potential strength of the dual language program as a negative. I see it as a positive that MacFarland has something tangible and unique that will make it a big draw. MacFarland is I believe the only DCPS dual language MS? That's a big plus that will attract families from the dual language feeders, and that interest and vitality will benefit the whole school. It will be important not to privilege the dual language program over the English-only program but I expect that the school admin and the PTA can maintain the balance. Plus there is, again, the demographic angle which works in favor of the geographic feeders, with an increasing school-age population IB for MacFarland.