Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP: who are you to question the scientific methods Orenstein die (or perhaps did not) use?

If I had been given an anonymous survey at 14 in a private environment to read and answer it, I would have 100% provided honest information.

Who knows in what kind of environment these girls were surveyed about their sexual activities? I don't. Does anyone? What was told to them before hand? Any discussions first? What was said by the adult(s)? What was their relationship with the girls?

Anonymous wrote:PP: who are you to question the scientific methods Orenstein die (or perhaps did not) use?

If I had been given an anonymous survey at 14 in a private environment to read and answer it, I would have 100% provided honest information.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just saw the book discussed on PBS, but I didn't get the author's point, unless she's just complaining.

What is she recommending?

Here's another interview: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/interrogation/2016/04/an_interview_with_peggy_orenstein_author_of_girls_and_sex_navigating_the.html

And no, she's not "just complaining".

Quoting Orenstein from the link:

That I think is cultural, and it’s true that in cultures that prioritize female orgasms, and there are some out there, that girls and women do have orgasms readily and easily. I think that what we do in our culture is we completely erase, well, I call it the psychological cliterodectomy. We erase female pleasure. From the time babies are born, we name all the parts on little boys. [Anything] between the navel and the knees on girls, people do not name. I’ve even been told, somebody told me after the book came out, that it’s actually a problem in pursuing charges in sexual abuse that girls don’t have a name there, so they can’t speak of it. We never say “vulva,” we never say “clitoris.”

It’s not really that much of a surprise that fewer than one-half of girls 14 to 17 have ever masturbated, and then they go into a partnered experience, and we think that they’re going to be able to have a voice or advocate for themselves or have a sense of what their own pleasure is. It’s completely unrealistic, and it puts girls not only at a disadvantage in terms of having a satisfying sexual experience but also just having an equal relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just saw the book discussed on PBS, but I didn't get the author's point, unless she's just complaining.

What is she recommending?

Here's another interview: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/interrogation/2016/04/an_interview_with_peggy_orenstein_author_of_girls_and_sex_navigating_the.html

And no, she's not "just complaining".

That I think is cultural, and it’s true that in cultures that prioritize female orgasms, and there are some out there, that girls and women do have orgasms readily and easily. I think that what we do in our culture is we completely erase, well, I call it the psychological cliterodectomy. We erase female pleasure. From the time babies are born, we name all the parts on little boys. [Anything] between the navel and the knees on girls, people do not name. I’ve even been told, somebody told me after the book came out, that it’s actually a problem in pursuing charges in sexual abuse that girls don’t have a name there, so they can’t speak of it. We never say “vulva,” we never say “clitoris.”

It’s not really that much of a surprise that fewer than one-half of girls 14 to 17 have ever masturbated, and then they go into a partnered experience, and we think that they’re going to be able to have a voice or advocate for themselves or have a sense of what their own pleasure is. It’s completely unrealistic, and it puts girls not only at a disadvantage in terms of having a satisfying sexual experience but also just having an equal relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one ever said anything about instructing! Simple validation that it's normal and healthy was all that was said. You all think such validation from a mother is worthless?

Well, I will have to read the book. Because I don't think that "By the way, the clitoris is a major pleasure zone, which you may have discovered for yourself while masturbating, which is healthy and normal if you want to do that" , out of the blue, would be very validating. In fact, I'd pick quite a different adjective for it. So obviously something has been lost in translation from book to NPR to DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:I heard her on Fresh Air. She was suggesting that an adult other than a parent validate.

Anonymous wrote:Just saw the book discussed on PBS, but I didn't get the author's point, unless she's just complaining.

What is she recommending?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I find it interesting no one wants to reply to my 9:21 post. Crickets as usual.

There was nothing really to respond to.

My girl is not old enough to talk about masturbation, but I have with my boys and asked them to do it in privacy and to clean up after (not throw the sock on the floor!). Nothing is wrong with it and we don't treat is like it is dirty. My daughter would touch herself when she was little because it made her feel good and we would always tell her that it is OK to do, but to please do that in her room and not at the kitchen table.

Personally, I would have died if my mom would have talked to me about my clit or masturbation. I would not have been interested in that convo at all. I had plenty of sorrid books that explained these things in graphic detail. THe important thing is to NEVER treat sex or sexuality like it is dirty.

Well perhaps the lack of education and empowerment as Orenstein puts it rolls from generation to generation resulting in the outcomes she observes.

What is your point in response to my post? makes no sense...at all.

Refers to your second paragraph. You didn't want the topic discussed and you don't want to discuss it. This is what I meant by rolling from generation to generation. This lack of full disclosure is a problem according to Orenstein when it comes to girls and women feeling a lack of sexual empowerment.

So are you saying I don't feel sexual empowerment because my mom did not discuss my clit with me or how to properly masturbate? I didn't know one needed their mother to be their masturbation Sherpa to have a healthy relationship with sex. Here I thought I was quite content humping my pillow. Glad Orenstein has it all figured out for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know anybody who regretted having sex too late.
I know many who wish they had waited longer.

Really? I know people who do.

And actually I don't remember hearing anybody I know, whose first experience was consensual and non-coercive, saying that they wished they had waited longer to have their first experience.

But is that the definition of "premature sex"? Sex that, in hindsight, you wish that you had had later than you did? I wouldn't think that this would be limited to certain ages.

I wish I had had it earlier.

Anonymous wrote:

No one ever said anything about instructing! Simple validation that it's normal and healthy was all that was said. You all think such validation from a mother is worthless?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I find it interesting no one wants to reply to my 9:21 post. Crickets as usual.

There was nothing really to respond to.

My girl is not old enough to talk about masturbation, but I have with my boys and asked them to do it in privacy and to clean up after (not throw the sock on the floor!). Nothing is wrong with it and we don't treat is like it is dirty. My daughter would touch herself when she was little because it made her feel good and we would always tell her that it is OK to do, but to please do that in her room and not at the kitchen table.

Personally, I would have died if my mom would have talked to me about my clit or masturbation. I would not have been interested in that convo at all. I had plenty of sorrid books that explained these things in graphic detail. THe important thing is to NEVER treat sex or sexuality like it is dirty.

Well perhaps the lack of education and empowerment as Orenstein puts it rolls from generation to generation resulting in the outcomes she observes.

What is your point in response to my post? makes no sense...at all.

Refers to your second paragraph. You didn't want the topic discussed and you don't want to discuss it. This is what I meant by rolling from generation to generation. This lack of full disclosure is a problem according to Orenstein when it comes to girls and women feeling a lack of sexual empowerment.

So are you saying I don't feel sexual empowerment because my mom did not discuss my clit with me or how to properly masturbate? I didn't know one needed their mother to be their masturbation Sherpa to have a healthy relationship with sex. Here I thought I was quite content humping my pillow. Glad Orenstein has it all figured out for me.

No one ever said anything about instructing! Simple validation that it's normal and healthy was all that was said. You all think such validation from a mother is worthless?