Ok folks, I'm not the OP but gonna make a request: a number of us are checking and contributing to this thread because we have a big decision to make about our kids. We want to make the right choice for us so many of the contributions have been really useful so thank you for that.

However, some contributions seem like they might belong more on threads where snarky fights about some dog whistle issues are being debated.

I'm sure some will rip my head off but it's getting a bit challenging to wade through the fighting on things only tangentially related to Breakthrough.

Could you please kindly consider focusing on topics that can help parents with this decision?

Thank you for your consideration.

Not all children of high SES parents, are great students.IJS

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No clue their reasons. Could be cost/time?

Ask from any Montessori certification, they have to get accredited as a school, not as a Montessori school per the DCPCSB. One of the Montessori orgs is no longer doing that sort of accreditation (can't recall which one).

Are they seeking any sort of accreditation? I could care less about AMI or AMS, but I think they're required to get some accreditation after 5 years.

Yes they will have to get accreditation from someone by year 5. No debate on that.

Others care deeply that they get certified by one of the 2 Montessori organizations to ensure fidelity to the model.

My understanding is that the organization behind Breakthrough offers some kind of accreditation and training. Did they not mention this at the orientation?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The building seems full of rooms without any windows. They said they will try to shuffle kids to make use of their windows but I do not quite see how this would happen without causing chaos.

They also said they will be high-fidelity Montessori but already reduced the class size, so I am growing less convinced they got this as well as they seem.

Plus the issue with remote playground etc., I am not sure.. Any thoughts on these?

Windowless classrooms unfortunately seem to be par for the course in DC, so all things being equal, that would not be a deciding factor for me.

As for the class size - I am no Montessori expert, but it seems difficult for me to both have a mission to provide high-quality preschool for lower-income students, and have the traditional large Montessori class size. I just don't see how you could truly provide a good educational experience at the traditionally high ratios.

No need to be Montessori expert, look at Lee - they have very high ratios as kids really learn from each other, and provide really good education including for low income families. I don't see the mystery...

Montessori teachers claim that Montessori classes work more smoothly and effectively if they are larger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

I don't buy the argument that charters are less "at-risk", "FARM", "minority", whatever because those entering the lottery are more motivated families. There are plenty of charters that are almost 100% low-income, minority, FARM, fill-in-the-blank, because those charters really do make an effort to recruit from these populations. I really do wonder about some of these other charters who claim to be focused on at-risk populations, but what exactly are doing to serve these populations?

They should be doing outreach to help families apply. Location also matters too - I know that Breakthrough was considering a location near Capitol Heights metro which prob would have changed the application pool. But ultimately the charter board approved their application, which expressly stated they wanted to locate in Ward 1.

Why is so wrong to have a charter that appeals to high SES families? Why do people think its a good idea for high sES families and their often high achieving kids to leave the disctrict? the rising tide lifts all boats. The more DCPS or Charters can do recruit high SES families to all schools not just in Ward 3, the better off all the kids will be.

There is NOTHING wrong with it. Just be upfront about it. Don't pretend to be concerned about the plight of the poor in the city if your true target audience is the wealthy in Ward 3. The fact that high SES families continue to enroll in these schools and shrug it all off is pathetic.

So high SES families should be the ones to put their kids in shitty DCPS so more FARMS kids can attend breakthrough? That is dumb too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

I don't buy the argument that charters are less "at-risk", "FARM", "minority", whatever because those entering the lottery are more motivated families. There are plenty of charters that are almost 100% low-income, minority, FARM, fill-in-the-blank, because those charters really do make an effort to recruit from these populations. I really do wonder about some of these other charters who claim to be focused on at-risk populations, but what exactly are doing to serve these populations?

They should be doing outreach to help families apply. Location also matters too - I know that Breakthrough was considering a location near Capitol Heights metro which prob would have changed the application pool. But ultimately the charter board approved their application, which expressly stated they wanted to locate in Ward 1.

Why is so wrong to have a charter that appeals to high SES families? Why do people think its a good idea for high sES families and their often high achieving kids to leave the disctrict? the rising tide lifts all boats. The more DCPS or Charters can do recruit high SES families to all schools not just in Ward 3, the better off all the kids will be.

There is NOTHING wrong with it. Just be upfront about it. Don't pretend to be concerned about the plight of the poor in the city if your true target audience is the wealthy in Ward 3. The fact that high SES families continue to enroll in these schools and shrug it all off is pathetic.

So high SES families should be the ones to put their kids in shitty DCPS so more FARMS kids can attend breakthrough? That is dumb too.

"Demographic Analysis
Ward 1 is one of the most diverse wards in the District (Table 3). Since one of our key
enrollment aims is to decrease racial and economic isolation, we view this diversity already
present as a positive element. On the other hand, we are well aware that the current charter and
district Montessori programs tend to be overrepresented by middle class families. As we will
explain in the recruiting and marketing section that follows, we have developed a robust strategy
designed to reach our goal of a racially and economically diverse school.
Race/Ethnicity Low
Income
(FARM) Black Hispanic /
Latino White Asian Other
Ward 1 32% 20% 48% 4% 6% 75%
Ward 4 58% 18% 24% 1% 14% 82%
Ward 5 76% 6% 16% 1% 5% 87%
Table 3: 2012-2013 Selected Population Demographics, Wards 1, 4, 5"

"Diverse" = "Lots of white peoples"

FYI, the Breakthrough proposal is here:

http://www.dcpcsb.org/sites/default/files/report/Breakthrough%20Montessori%20-%20Redacted%20Application%20-%202015-03-09.pdf

No lip service to EOTR.

The preferred location for our school is Ward 1. The ward has a sizable percentage of children
with high needs and it contains neighborhoods that can provide a rich integrated experience. We
would consider Wards 4 or 5 if a suitable building site cannot be found in Ward 1. These two
additional wards are somewhat similar to Ward 1 in their demographic profile; they both have
deeply diverse populations. We are casting a wider net beyond Ward 1 because our research into
potential school sites has convinced us that, due to demand and cost, we should be flexible. Our
partner during our incubation phase, Building Hope, has expressed a similar view with us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

I don't buy the argument that charters are less "at-risk", "FARM", "minority", whatever because those entering the lottery are more motivated families. There are plenty of charters that are almost 100% low-income, minority, FARM, fill-in-the-blank, because those charters really do make an effort to recruit from these populations. I really do wonder about some of these other charters who claim to be focused on at-risk populations, but what exactly are doing to serve these populations?

They should be doing outreach to help families apply. Location also matters too - I know that Breakthrough was considering a location near Capitol Heights metro which prob would have changed the application pool. But ultimately the charter board approved their application, which expressly stated they wanted to locate in Ward 1.

Why is so wrong to have a charter that appeals to high SES families? Why do people think its a good idea for high sES families and their often high achieving kids to leave the disctrict? the rising tide lifts all boats. The more DCPS or Charters can do recruit high SES families to all schools not just in Ward 3, the better off all the kids will be.

There is NOTHING wrong with it. Just be upfront about it. Don't pretend to be concerned about the plight of the poor in the city if your true target audience is the wealthy in Ward 3. The fact that high SES families continue to enroll in these schools and shrug it all off is pathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

I don't buy the argument that charters are less "at-risk", "FARM", "minority", whatever because those entering the lottery are more motivated families. There are plenty of charters that are almost 100% low-income, minority, FARM, fill-in-the-blank, because those charters really do make an effort to recruit from these populations. I really do wonder about some of these other charters who claim to be focused on at-risk populations, but what exactly are doing to serve these populations?

They should be doing outreach to help families apply. Location also matters too - I know that Breakthrough was considering a location near Capitol Heights metro which prob would have changed the application pool. But ultimately the charter board approved their application, which expressly stated they wanted to locate in Ward 1.

Why is so wrong to have a charter that appeals to high SES families? Why do people think its a good idea for high sES families and their often high achieving kids to leave the disctrict? the rising tide lifts all boats. The more DCPS or Charters can do recruit high SES families to all schools not just in Ward 3, the better off all the kids will be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

Shocking how predictable that was. I'm sure if I were smarter or more bored, I could find myself saying that when they first put their application in.

Some schools do mean it though when they submit it - e.g. Rocketship, which is opening next fall in Ward 8.

It makes it even easier to see the ones who pay lip service, such as Breakthrough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

Shocking how predictable that was. I'm sure if I were smarter or more bored, I could find myself saying that when they first put their application in.

Some schools do mean it though when they submit it - e.g. Rocketship, which is opening next fall in Ward 8.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

Shocking how predictable that was. I'm sure if I were smarter or more bored, I could find myself saying that when they first put their application in.

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread convinces me that the clamor for montessori has nothing to do with montessori itself, but the perception that more well-off families will be drawn to it and hence, low FARMS. It's pretty sickening.

It's well established that different cultures and classes have different child-rearing and educational preferences/styles. The idea that you would give your kid so many choices and so much decision making power (what do you want to work on today?) is antenimical (sp?) to many classes, including my husbands factory-working, military family.

Montessori then will appeal to certain segments of the population. BUT 1) if you think that will eliminate hard social problems you kids might face, think again. My kid is a problem in the classroom despite two professional parents and lot of money for therapy. The biggest problem at his last preschool was a very troubled boy from two sweet and concerned but hapless high SES parents 2) The educational/therapy community has caught on to Montessori and are channeling "problem" boys from all social-economic classes to Montessori schools thinking it will be a better fit.

I love Montessori, but it is what it is. And what it isn't is a private school. Go YY for that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My one concern would be about the class balancing. Do they have any concern with having larger groups of 3 year olds? (I'm assuming the answer is no).

Based on its location and use of the term "Montessori", I'd be shocked if the FARMs rate for next year is very high. I'm on the WL and those who I know who are either in or WLed are all white or mixed race middle to upper class Petworthians/Cola Heights families.

Well, I hope you're wrong, because the Breakthrough charter application went into great detail about serving at-risk kids. Hopefully they did good outreach and will meet this goal.

isnt that just some BS to get approval? Its a lottery so its already self selecting to the parents who make the effort. Also, location is a huge factor. Its in a super gentfiying area of a bunch of families who are likley getting shut out of Creative Minds. I know, cause we are one of them in Petworth. Who cares. this is just reality of charters. I am just jealous I didn't get in.

I don't buy the argument that charters are less "at-risk", "FARM", "minority", whatever because those entering the lottery are more motivated families. There are plenty of charters that are almost 100% low-income, minority, FARM, fill-in-the-blank, because those charters really do make an effort to recruit from these populations. I really do wonder about some of these other charters who claim to be focused on at-risk populations, but what exactly are doing to serve these populations?

They should be doing outreach to help families apply. Location also matters too - I know that Breakthrough was considering a location near Capitol Heights metro which prob would have changed the application pool. But ultimately the charter board approved their application, which expressly stated they wanted to locate in Ward 1.