Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meh. I'm realistic. I took vows and take mine seriously. They really encompass things happening TO THE COUPLE though- they're not carte Blanche for one spouse to drop all their marital responsibilities and then say "TOUGH, VOWS!" I'm not holding my husband to superhuman levels of patience and understanding under the guise of vows. If I unilaterally decide sex is done for long term purposes, I'm not going to be shocked if I find out he discreetly went and got some on the side. Forcing your spouse's hand that way and then crying victim is so annoying to me.

maybe you won't be shocked, but would you not be hurt at all? If not, then I think basically your marriage is over.

I'm sure I wouldn't like it but I suppose hurt feelings would be the price to pay for treating my spouse like that.

Anonymous wrote:You realize she had your fucking baby, you idiot? Women are not just baby incubators designed to pop them out and then shrink back for YOUR sexual pleasure.

The audacity of someone who can have someone else push THEIR baby out of their privates- and then be angry when said person does not snap back to the pre-another-human-living-inside-them-size...

If you could bottle that level of clueless self absorption, you could make a killing. Women should buy it, so they will learn to dump these kinds of losers and think of THEMSELVES, which would mean not putting up with this misogynistic bullshit.

Having a baby doesn't excuse anyone for gaining 50 pounds and not making an effort for physical intimacy with your spouse.

Anonymous wrote:I get that you don't like duty sex, but if she's taking a baby step towards sex, maybe you could try not to criticize her efforts. It sounds like you will only have sex if she approaches you in exactly the right way, and you don't even really desire her anyway. Maybe you're the one who needs to work on your libido.

You are correct that I "will only have sex if she approaches you in exactly the right way" where the right way includes any kind of overt physical touch at all.

I'm with the previous posters who've said that this is something we both have to want enough to talk about.

Anonymous wrote:You realize she had your fucking baby, you idiot? Women are not just baby incubators designed to pop them out and then shrink back for YOUR sexual pleasure.

The audacity of someone who can have someone else push THEIR baby out of their privates- and then be angry when said person does not snap back to the pre-another-human-living-inside-them-size...

If you could bottle that level of clueless self absorption, you could make a killing. Women should buy it, so they will learn to dump these kinds of losers and think of THEMSELVES, which would mean not putting up with this misogynistic bullshit.

Doesn't sound like he is expecting her to be there for his sexual pleasure. She's the one getting pissed at him for not wanting to have sex with her. (She doesn't want to have sex, but she wants him to want to.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

I tried this one already...it requires her to either initiate (never happens) or get to the point that it's an emotional outburst. She's left me not-so-subtle hints on cards (eg, valentines day card), but never touches me, and is pretty much unresponsive to my touch. It's a little nutty.

I have, however, responded calmly and compassionately to the outbusts explaining exactly that: I don't really want to have sex with someone who doesn't seem to want to have it with me...and that to me requires something beyond leaving a note about getting it back in a card.

Maybe I should walk in the room naked, holding the card and tell her what to do...

Well of course she's insecure if that's how you react. "Calmly and compassionately" my ass. I get that you don't like duty sex, but if she's taking a baby step towards sex, maybe you could try not to criticize her efforts. It sounds like you will only have sex if she approaches you in exactly the right way, and you don't even really desire her anyway. Maybe you're the one who needs to work on your libido.

OP, listen to this advice. I was in a similar situation as you. We had battles over my wife's sex drive (lack of it). I finally got comfortable with duty sex - if she offered it, I would throw her on the bed and f*ck her hard and quick, finish in decent time, and only really worry about her pleasure if she responded (which happened sometimes). You know what? My wife liked that - she felt good about making her husband happy, she thought it was hot that I "took" her selfishly and that I didn't expect some big production from her so she would do it more often. That was a building block to maintaining intimacy, so when the kids got older and she regained some libido, she is more into it now.

Just do it.

Anonymous wrote:Let her have her emotional outburst. Then what happens?

I do...and I try to be understanding and compassionate; I don't get angry and I try to reassure her.

We cuddle, go to bed...sleep.

We wake up in the morning, she's embarrassed about her outburst, assumes I hate her. I reassure her again.

We go back to the status-quo-ante like nothing happened.

After a few weeks, she gets anxious again that I'm no longer into her because I'm not chasing her for sex. rinse, repeat.

You realize she had your fucking baby, you idiot? Women are not just baby incubators designed to pop them out and then shrink back for YOUR sexual pleasure.

The audacity of someone who can have someone else push THEIR baby out of their privates- and then be angry when said person does not snap back to the pre-another-human-living-inside-them-size...

If you could bottle that level of clueless self absorption, you could make a killing. Women should buy it, so they will learn to dump these kinds of losers and think of THEMSELVES, which would mean not putting up with this misogynistic bullshit.

Guy here, with 9 month old and a toddler. Merely having time is a big issue -- it pretty much comes down to nap time on the weekends, IF both kids manage to stay asleep.

As for the attractiveness thing, maybe this won't work for you, but just mentioning it -- try watching porn with women of DW's size. That can help you get attracted to it.

OP, you are in an asymmetric situation so you need asymmetric action.

Bottom line, like most men, you want sex more than your wife (I said most, not all - my condolences to women married to low drive men). I know this started when the baby came and started in a dramatic way, but it was probably coming at some point as the relationship wears on (you have only been married 2.5 years). Women like being pursued, even if they don't want to have sex. Women like the compliments. Women respond sexually when they feel desired (See e.g. every romance, twighlight. 50 shades novel). If you want sex to be equal responsibility in the marriage, then get used to having sex as often as lesbian women have sex in a long term relationship (averages again, my condolences to high drive lesbians).

So keep initiating, keep pursuing, keep making your wife feel sexy. If you tell her sex is something you can take or leave, she is going to spiral lower in her libido. You are playing the long game here.

It's not fair, in the sense you want your marital sex life to be a 50/50. But it's also not fair that most women get stuck with more housework because men are generally happy to live in dirty houses (condolences to clean freak men). Or that women do more child care.

Anonymous wrote:Meh. I'm realistic. I took vows and take mine seriously. They really encompass things happening TO THE COUPLE though- they're not carte Blanche for one spouse to drop all their marital responsibilities and then say "TOUGH, VOWS!" I'm not holding my husband to superhuman levels of patience and understanding under the guise of vows. If I unilaterally decide sex is done for long term purposes, I'm not going to be shocked if I find out he discreetly went and got some on the side. Forcing your spouse's hand that way and then crying victim is so annoying to me.

maybe you won't be shocked, but would you not be hurt at all? If not, then I think basically your marriage is over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

I tried this one already...it requires her to either initiate (never happens) or get to the point that it's an emotional outburst. She's left me not-so-subtle hints on cards (eg, valentines day card), but never touches me, and is pretty much unresponsive to my touch. It's a little nutty.

I have, however, responded calmly and compassionately to the outbusts explaining exactly that: I don't really want to have sex with someone who doesn't seem to want to have it with me...and that to me requires something beyond leaving a note about getting it back in a card.

Maybe I should walk in the room naked, holding the card and tell her what to do...

Well of course she's insecure if that's how you react. "Calmly and compassionately" my ass. I get that you don't like duty sex, but if she's taking a baby step towards sex, maybe you could try not to criticize her efforts. It sounds like you will only have sex if she approaches you in exactly the right way, and you don't even really desire her anyway. Maybe you're the one who needs to work on your libido.

OP, I feel for you. I really do. Duty sex is depressing. BUT.

First, your wife does not enjoy sex because it is physically painful for her! You need to help her resolve the pain issue before she will want to have sex. Find a pelvic pain specialist and make the appointment.

Second, she really is trying to meet you in the middle with duty sex. She's offering it to you even though it hurts her physically. I'm not saying you have to have duty sex if you don't want to, but doesn't it mean something that she's willing to endure the pain, for you? I get that you don't actually want it, but doesn't the thought mean anything? It sounds like the cards and hints are her way of trying to do her part, even though she can't actually get to sex.

Third, you are demanding something (genuine sexual desire) that she has no idea how to provide. It's not like she can just summon it up at will. (Kind of like how her weight gain is difficult for your desire, or how you aren't interested in the evenings, right?) You can't just demand that she desire you, any more than she can demand that you desire her. You say you're "not bitching about how my wife doesn't want sexy time"-- but that is exactly what you're complaining about. You said "Main problem is our sex life is dead." You don't want duty sex, so what do you actually want? Her to more convincingly pretend to enjoy sex?

This will not get better until you resolve the pelvic pain, and then you sound like you both have some relationship work to do. And I do think you should see your therapist for some support. This is a difficult time in your life and you deserve someone to listen and support you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

I tried this one already...it requires her to either initiate (never happens) or get to the point that it's an emotional outburst. She's left me not-so-subtle hints on cards (eg, valentines day card), but never touches me, and is pretty much unresponsive to my touch. It's a little nutty.

I have, however, responded calmly and compassionately to the outbusts explaining exactly that: I don't really want to have sex with someone who doesn't seem to want to have it with me...and that to me requires something beyond leaving a note about getting it back in a card.

Maybe I should walk in the room naked, holding the card and tell her what to do...

Let her have her emotional outburst. Then what happens?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP back again...

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you guys need to just take the pressure off right now and have affection and intimacy but not worry about intercourse.

I recommend you slowly try to be more physically affectionate in ways don't necessarily lead to sex. Kiss her randomly in the kitchen. Touch her arm or back more when you guys are talking. Cuddle her on the couch and put your arm around her but don't try to advance it.

So, this is exactly the strategy I've been pursuing. In fact, I've shifted my shows of affection to be exclusively those that she says she likes, and pretty much don't do the things I personally always preferred to do (the ways I've enjoyed touching a partner). That "no sex but cuddle/affection" is pretty much exactly where we are now, that has resulted in the situation. It's not working.

You've got a baby and a toddler. It's a tough time. Keep it going and give it time.

Just to reiterate: I'm fine with waiting - I'm not climbing the walls due to lack of sex. I'm not cheating and I'm not going nuts because we aren't doing it.

What is happening - and the reason I'm not taking a wait-and-see approach - is that my wife is starting to have more and more upset/anger at me because I'm not chasing her tail around all the time. This might all work out better if I were still a 17 year old horndog and happy with duty sex.

Anonymous wrote:What if you played a little harder to get? If she asks you why you're not initiating, calmly tell her you don't want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you.

I tried this one already...it requires her to either initiate (never happens) or get to the point that it's an emotional outburst. She's left me not-so-subtle hints on cards (eg, valentines day card), but never touches me, and is pretty much unresponsive to my touch. It's a little nutty.

I have, however, responded calmly and compassionately to the outbusts explaining exactly that: I don't really want to have sex with someone who doesn't seem to want to have it with me...and that to me requires something beyond leaving a note about getting it back in a card.

Maybe I should walk in the room naked, holding the card and tell her what to do...