Anonymous
02/15/2016 12:22
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Just kidding. Ha ha ha ha ha.
OP, I was looking for the Holy Grail!
I'm sure there are some kids who do their college applications all by themselves, but not mine.
I tried and tried to let them figure out the process themselves. Their college guidance counselor warned "let your child take the lead." Ha ha ha ha ha.
If my kid took the lead, she'd still be sitting on my couch playing video games instead of getting ready to graduate from college right now!!!
I was hoping my other kids would be different from my oldest, but that was wishful thinking. (OP, I thought you might give me some tips!)
I waited as long as I could with my younger kids to see if they would show any initiative, but when they didn't, I started pushing, planning, scheduling college visits, etc.
I think PPs are right though, the cost of college has made parental intervention essential. Kids can't just apply to colleges that interest them. First, they have to find colleges we can afford, and then weed out the ones that don't interest them.
Essentially, the middle class is getting cut out of private colleges. In time colleges like NYU will be filled with the poor, very rich and foreigners who can pay full freight.
Now that wages for the middle class are not increasing (we have less buying power than we had a decade ago), there's little hope for middle class kids to attend high-priced prestigious private colleges. And the public universities are getting more and more selective because more kids are applying because they are often the only affordable option!
Anonymous
02/14/2016 15:29
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you honestly think your attempts to insult and undermine what other people choose to do and how they conduct their finances makes you better or holier than thou? Not hardly. People will do whatever they think is best for their families. I highly doubt if some kid doesn't fill out a FAFSA that they are ineligible to attend four-year colleges. Get off your high horse. You or your kid is not walking water. Geez!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is wonderful that your parents gave you their tax returns to do the FAFSA. You are in a league of your own, and I guarantee that the majority of parents are NOT going to rely on the capabilities of an 17-18 year old to handle forms entailing the possibility of obtaining (or not) thousands and thousands of dollars and adding additional personal comments regarding their finances.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can appreciate doing school research and application deadlines but we part ways about finances (other than tuition cost and some expenses). If any kid here is that astute with finances, including yours, then I assume they are 100% knowledgeable about your investments, cost of your home, mortgage payments, etc. After all, these are merely a few questions on college financial aid forms.Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
I knew exactly how much support I was going to get from my family, and they did give me their tax returns so I could do the FAFSA myself. Obviously I agree that parents have to make the financial information to fill out the forms available. But other than that I did all the financial calculations myself, including deliberately chosing schools that would provide the most aid.
I personally would never have given my kids that type of responsibility whether anyone else did nor not. Most people do not run their lives or question their abilities based on anonymous boards.
Do you mean the responsibility to fill out the forms correctly? If you don't think your child can accurately fill out the FAFSA if given all the source documents you might want to consider community college ... I agree that making sure your kid understands the reality of student loans is important, but if they don't have the basic ability to fill out a form then you have bigger problems. And making them responsible for their own college finances is an important way to help them be good financial planners.
[/quote]THIS!
+ 1. Parent obviously has never even looked at the FAFSA. Read Andy Ferguson's "One Dad's Experience in the College ADmissions Process". He spends an entire chapter on the intricacies of the FAFSA. He opens the chapter with the government's assessment of how long it should take the parent to fill out the FAFSA (20 minutes or so. He has all his tax filings for the last three years ready. Some four hours later he's still pulling his hair out. And I think that book is now almost ten years old! Currently the governement's assessment is 20 minutes to two hours to fill out the FAFSA. Took us five hours with assistance from CPA and accountant (we file estimates taxes, which just makes things even worse).
Anonymous
02/14/2016 14:13
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
There will always be people who think they or their children are better than anyone else's, they went to better schools than others. They continue attempts to demean or castigate others who don't see or do things their way or attend the same types of schools. Unless they are contributing to the betterment of your life (like paying tuition), show them the door. Arguing with them is fruitless.
Apparently most parents here have done decent enough to have their kids in college, community college or otherwise (as the other poster found it necessary to put community college down). That's the bottom line.
Apparently most parents here have done decent enough to have their kids in college, community college or otherwise (as the other poster found it necessary to put community college down). That's the bottom line.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 14:04
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
THIS!Anonymous wrote:Do you honestly think your attempts to insult and undermine what other people choose to do and how they conduct their finances makes you better or holier than thou? Not hardly. People will do whatever they think is best for their families. I highly doubt if some kid doesn't fill out a FAFSA that they are ineligible to attend four-year colleges. Get off your high horse. You or your kid is not walking water. Geez!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is wonderful that your parents gave you their tax returns to do the FAFSA. You are in a league of your own, and I guarantee that the majority of parents are NOT going to rely on the capabilities of an 17-18 year old to handle forms entailing the possibility of obtaining (or not) thousands and thousands of dollars and adding additional personal comments regarding their finances.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can appreciate doing school research and application deadlines but we part ways about finances (other than tuition cost and some expenses). If any kid here is that astute with finances, including yours, then I assume they are 100% knowledgeable about your investments, cost of your home, mortgage payments, etc. After all, these are merely a few questions on college financial aid forms.Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
I knew exactly how much support I was going to get from my family, and they did give me their tax returns so I could do the FAFSA myself. Obviously I agree that parents have to make the financial information to fill out the forms available. But other than that I did all the financial calculations myself, including deliberately chosing schools that would provide the most aid.
I personally would never have given my kids that type of responsibility whether anyone else did nor not. Most people do not run their lives or question their abilities based on anonymous boards.
Do you mean the responsibility to fill out the forms correctly? If you don't think your child can accurately fill out the FAFSA if given all the source documents you might want to consider community college ... I agree that making sure your kid understands the reality of student loans is important, but if they don't have the basic ability to fill out a form then you have bigger problems. And making them responsible for their own college finances is an important way to help them be good financial planners.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 14:00
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Do you honestly think your attempts to insult and undermine what other people choose to do and how they conduct their finances makes you better or holier than thou? Not hardly. People will do whatever they think is best for their families. I highly doubt if some kid doesn't fill out a FAFSA that they are ineligible to attend four-year colleges. Get off your high horse. You or your kid is not walking water. Geez!Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That is wonderful that your parents gave you their tax returns to do the FAFSA. You are in a league of your own, and I guarantee that the majority of parents are NOT going to rely on the capabilities of an 17-18 year old to handle forms entailing the possibility of obtaining (or not) thousands and thousands of dollars and adding additional personal comments regarding their finances.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can appreciate doing school research and application deadlines but we part ways about finances (other than tuition cost and some expenses). If any kid here is that astute with finances, including yours, then I assume they are 100% knowledgeable about your investments, cost of your home, mortgage payments, etc. After all, these are merely a few questions on college financial aid forms.Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
I knew exactly how much support I was going to get from my family, and they did give me their tax returns so I could do the FAFSA myself. Obviously I agree that parents have to make the financial information to fill out the forms available. But other than that I did all the financial calculations myself, including deliberately chosing schools that would provide the most aid.
I personally would never have given my kids that type of responsibility whether anyone else did nor not. Most people do not run their lives or question their abilities based on anonymous boards.
Do you mean the responsibility to fill out the forms correctly? If you don't think your child can accurately fill out the FAFSA if given all the source documents you might want to consider community college ... I agree that making sure your kid understands the reality of student loans is important, but if they don't have the basic ability to fill out a form then you have bigger problems. And making them responsible for their own college finances is an important way to help them be good financial planners.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:51
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
I'm one of those who drove myself to four local colleges, slapped together an essay and got a $30 check from my mom and mailed it in and got in to the four colleges I applied to. Here's the difference: my parents weren't looking at laying out for the cost of a small house. I had grants, loans and fortunately the loans for both undergrad and law school were minimal and finally paid of @ age 35. It was nothing like the costs we are looking at today. NYU broke the $72K a year barrier last year and now all the other LACs and Universities think they can follow suit. Unfortunately, a Cadillac is not the same as an old Dodge but so long as LACs and OSS universities think they can charge $60K+ a year (all included), they will. The international students would kill for slots here in the U.S. IF DC gets into an Ivy, then there is little to not merit aid, and we know that. Considering travel costs and other expenditures let's just say that is 75K a year x 4 (but half of USA students take longer than four years to graduate now). That's a total cost of $300 = small house. And that's in after-tax dollars so we have to go make $600K to pay for four or five years. Meanwhile we have two other kids in college. And our parents are getting frail so we are facing nursing homes and our own retirement is on permanent hold. So, yes, we parents are far more involved than my parents were.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:45
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I applied to college without assistance from my parents 20 years ago. Why do parents feel the need to help kids now? Is the process more complicated or is helicoptering just too ingrained?
Both of my kids applied for college, filled out FAFSA and paid for college themselves. One is 24 and the other is graduating in May. Both finished in four years. Kids CAN be self-sufficient people!
No child has the information needed to fill out the FAFSA unless their parents gave it to them. As for the CSS, does your child know the year you purchased your house, the amount of mortgage left and its current value. Does your child know the year of yours cars, what you paid for them, make model and whether or not they are paid off? Even our CPA didn't know some of the answers. We had to dig to find 20 year old house purchase records.
Why would your CPA need to tell you that information? If you don't know the items listen in the above, you've got bigger fish to fry.
We've used the same CPA for 20+ years. He has all the purchase records and cost-basis records for use when we sell. For some reason he couldn't dig out the purchase records, date of purchase, etc., so I did. We also used our accountant to help with the CSS. There are terms in both the FAFSA and CSS that my husband didn't understand the meaning of so the CPA and accountant told him what to insert in the particular blanks. Both FAFSA and CSS want to see the 2015 return done, which of course we haven't filed,, so the CPA drew up estimates based on the 2014 tax year. All debt is to be reported as well.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:38
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Interesting that we have all these posters who did it all themselves with no help or review from their parent (s). Well. things were a helluva lot simpler yesteryear.
Really? Seems easier with a common app. Applications used to have several lengthy questions to answer plus essays. Each. Plus information about schools wasn't so readily available.
It's not that the application process is so different these days. It's that kids are coddled more in every aspect of life.
Seriously disagree. Every school that my child applied to (8) required side essays to the Common App. He spent most of December writing side essays.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:35
Subject: Re:My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Well, forget the Ivies, do you want your kid to get into UVA or a good state school? That's what it takes.
UVA isn't just a "good state school" - it's one of the best. So no, I don't expect either one of my anti-superstar children to go there - that ship sailed once they had a couple of Bs on their report cards but I don't see any reason to torture them or myself over it.
My eldest DC was admitted to two schools with rankings similar to VA Tech (considered Top 25ish publics). DC has pre-Calc as a senior, 3 APs, a B+ average, very good but not stratospheric ACT scores, and few extracurriculars. No SAT IIs, no National Merit. No ED, NO SCEA, all decisions were in by February 1. 7 applications, 7 acceptances, avoided the Common App entirely and had very little stress about the whole thing. DC is very laid back. I helped research schools because I thought it was fun (I had few choices when I went to school) and paid the fees. Never read the essays.
[b]I am starting to wonder if I can find the will to fill out the FAFSA in the next two weeks (oh and I guess figure out what the CSS is?)
You already missed the FAFSA and CSS deadlines for most schools.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:33
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I applied to college without assistance from my parents 20 years ago. Why do parents feel the need to help kids now? Is the process more complicated or is helicoptering just too ingrained?
Both of my kids applied for college, filled out FAFSA and paid for college themselves. One is 24 and the other is graduating in May. Both finished in four years. Kids CAN be self-sufficient people!
No child has the information needed to fill out the FAFSA unless their parents gave it to them. As for the CSS, does your child know the year you purchased your house, the amount of mortgage left and its current value. Does your child know the year of yours cars, what you paid for them, make model and whether or not they are paid off? Even our CPA didn't know some of the answers. We had to dig to find 20 year old house purchase records.
Why would your CPA need to tell you that information? If you don't know the items listen in the above, you've got bigger fish to fry.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:28
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I applied to college without assistance from my parents 20 years ago. Why do parents feel the need to help kids now? Is the process more complicated or is helicoptering just too ingrained?
Both of my kids applied for college, filled out FAFSA and paid for college themselves. One is 24 and the other is graduating in May. Both finished in four years. Kids CAN be self-sufficient people!
No child has the information needed to fill out the FAFSA unless their parents gave it to them. As for the CSS, does your child know the year you purchased your house, the amount of mortgage left and its current value. Does your child know the year of yours cars, what you paid for them, make model and whether or not they are paid off? Even our CPA didn't know some of the answers. We had to dig to find 20 year old house purchase records.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 13:19
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:That is wonderful that your parents gave you their tax returns to do the FAFSA. You are in a league of your own, and I guarantee that the majority of parents are NOT going to rely on the capabilities of an 17-18 year old to handle forms entailing the possibility of obtaining (or not) thousands and thousands of dollars and adding additional personal comments regarding their finances.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can appreciate doing school research and application deadlines but we part ways about finances (other than tuition cost and some expenses). If any kid here is that astute with finances, including yours, then I assume they are 100% knowledgeable about your investments, cost of your home, mortgage payments, etc. After all, these are merely a few questions on college financial aid forms.Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
I knew exactly how much support I was going to get from my family, and they did give me their tax returns so I could do the FAFSA myself. Obviously I agree that parents have to make the financial information to fill out the forms available. But other than that I did all the financial calculations myself, including deliberately chosing schools that would provide the most aid.
I personally would never have given my kids that type of responsibility whether anyone else did nor not. Most people do not run their lives or question their abilities based on anonymous boards.
Do you mean the responsibility to fill out the forms correctly? If you don't think your child can accurately fill out the FAFSA if given all the source documents you might want to consider community college ... I agree that making sure your kid understands the reality of student loans is important, but if they don't have the basic ability to fill out a form then you have bigger problems. And making them responsible for their own college finances is an important way to help them be good financial planners.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 12:38
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
As someone said in this forum on another topic....different strokes for different folks. I couldn't agree more.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
Your simplistic approach about no discussion with your parents 20 years ago was fine for your lifestyle. As a parent of color, not only am I involved in the college choice process, I am also along for visits for now. Our discussion is not as simplistic as yours might be as we discuss college choices in the south where confederate flags fly or review choices in Maine where the governor remarks about out of state drug dealers impregnating innocent young white girls or his remarks about telling Obama to go to hell and the NAACP to kiss his butt. Or states where there are flagrant abuses of people of color with traffic stops. I think you get the picture.
Your definition of intense over-involvement is summarily dismissed by ANY PARENT who wants to make sure their child is cautious and safe in their collegiate atmosphere.
The options as you put it are more than just finances, applications deadlines, and ones ability to fill out an application.
I don't blame you for wanting to guide your child to a school where you feel safe but ultimately they are going to be responsible for their own safety. Ironically, my parents did get heavily involved in a younger sibling's college choice on the grounds of purported safety concerns -- and ended up forcing him to a crappy school where he took on a ton of debt and getting deep into a party/drug culture that my parents naively thought he would be protected from because "it is a Catholic college." To this day I think my brother's life would have turned out very differently if the had not been so heavy handed.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 12:35
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
That is wonderful that your parents gave you their tax returns to do the FAFSA. You are in a league of your own, and I guarantee that the majority of parents are NOT going to rely on the capabilities of an 17-18 year old to handle forms entailing the possibility of obtaining (or not) thousands and thousands of dollars and adding additional personal comments regarding their finances.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can appreciate doing school research and application deadlines but we part ways about finances (other than tuition cost and some expenses). If any kid here is that astute with finances, including yours, then I assume they are 100% knowledgeable about your investments, cost of your home, mortgage payments, etc. After all, these are merely a few questions on college financial aid forms.Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
I knew exactly how much support I was going to get from my family, and they did give me their tax returns so I could do the FAFSA myself. Obviously I agree that parents have to make the financial information to fill out the forms available. But other than that I did all the financial calculations myself, including deliberately chosing schools that would provide the most aid.
I personally would never have given my kids that type of responsibility whether anyone else did nor not. Most people do not run their lives or question their abilities based on anonymous boards.
Anonymous
02/14/2016 12:33
Subject: My son applied to college without any assistance whatsoever. AMA
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Are things really that more complicated these days?
I did college admissions completely on my own 20 years ago - and ended up at a solid SLAC with minimal debt. (Also admitted to Ivies but realized I couldn't afford it.) I literally had no discussion about it with my parents except for to tell them when I had narrowed my acceptance down to two choices that would cost the same. Even then the choice was entirely my own.
I do want to take a more active role with my child but I can't imagine the intense over-involvement of other parents here. If my child can't figure out how to evaluate the options, understand the finances, and meet the application deadlines, mostly of his own accord, then I will have failed in parenting in many ways.
Your simplistic approach about no discussion with your parents 20 years ago was fine for your lifestyle. As a parent of color, not only am I involved in the college choice process, I am also along for visits for now. Our discussion is not as simplistic as yours might be as we discuss college choices in the south where confederate flags fly or review choices in Maine where the governor remarks about out of state drug dealers impregnating innocent young white girls or his remarks about telling Obama to go to hell and the NAACP to kiss his butt. Or states where there are flagrant abuses of people of color with traffic stops. I think you get the picture.
Your definition of intense over-involvement is summarily dismissed by ANY PARENT who wants to make sure their child is cautious and safe in their collegiate atmosphere.
The options as you put it are more than just finances, applications deadlines, and ones ability to fill out an application.
I don't blame you for wanting to guide your child to a school where you feel safe but ultimately they are going to be responsible for their own safety. Ironically, my parents did get heavily involved in a younger sibling's college choice on the grounds of purported safety concerns -- and ended up forcing him to a crappy school where he took on a ton of debt and getting deep into a party/drug culture that my parents naively thought he would be protected from because "it is a Catholic college." To this day I think my brother's life would have turned out very differently if the had not been so heavy handed.